Kathryn Henry Turns Grief Into Another F*cking Growth Opportunity

[00:00:02] Hey there, listeners. Welcome to Sh!t That Goes On In Our Heads, our podcast where we normalize conversations around mental health. That's right. I'm Dirty Skittles and alongside my amazing co-host, G-Rex, we'll hear your stories and tips from our incredible guests. Each episode, we deep dive into struggles and triumphs of mental health, offering practical advice and

[00:00:27] heartfelt support because no one should feel alone in their journey. Join us as we break the stigma and build a community of understanding and compassion. Tune in and let's start talking about the shit that goes on in our heads. Three, one. Welcome back to another episode of Shit

[00:00:52] That Goes On In Our Heads. I'm here with the awesome Dirty Skittles and today we have an amazing guest, Kathryn. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. It's my pleasure to be here with you too. Yeah. Technical difficulties cannot stop us. Ever. You know? I hope not. I hope not. It feels like the end of the world sometimes, though, no? Just a little bit. Because technical difficulties.

[00:01:19] Because it pisses us off, right? Because we always have something to do when technology decides it doesn't want to work for us. But I am so excited that we get to interview you today. And Dirty Skittles, you're going to love this guest. Love. Yes. Yes. I can't wait to learn all about you, Kathryn. Wow. So you are an author, correct? Yes, I am. A recently published author. It's wonderful. What is the title of your book?

[00:01:46] It is called A Dime to Say I Love You. And it's large... Which I just finished. Oh, good. Well, tell me. All right. Give me any feedback. Good, bad, indifferent, whatever. How did it resonate with you? It made my heart feel better. Especially with all the shit that's going on in this world right now. Yeah.

[00:02:13] It was written by somebody who is filled with love. And you can feel it. It comes through the book. So, job well done. Thank you. Oh, I love that. Because I can't even get through Dirty Skittles, like spicy fucking books because they are just... It's dry. Listen, if it's not dragons and sex, I can't do it. If it's human and it has a good story to it, I don't know why you're laughing, Dirty Skittles. It's true.

[00:02:44] But if you had... Thank you. Thank you for writing such a beautiful piece of your life. And I see it like you just have the biggest smile on your face. And that for the people that will listen to this episode, she just has a big smile on her face. And Dirty Skittles is laughing at me. So, you know, whatever. What's new? I know. I'm sorry. I'm laughing at you because the books I read tap into a different emotion. And I don't think they compare at all.

[00:03:10] And I have to ask, because that title that you have there is so beautiful. Can you tell us where that comes from? Yeah, it's actually throughout the book. So, Lisa and I used to leave dimes for each other. And just for context for readers who don't know anything about the book, it's largely a memoir. It chronicles a lot of the very profound experiences Lisa and I had during a near 10-year battle with cancer. She transitioned eight years ago.

[00:03:38] And that experience of losing the love of my life, really, and going through that in a very profound and present way was spiritually transformative. And it just fundamentally changed who I am as a human being and how I look at life, how I look at love, how I look at every experience and interaction with people and just meaning.

[00:04:00] So, coming back to your question, a dime to say I love you, we used to, when we were together, we would leave dimes for each other just in obscure places. So, when you found a dime, it was a reminder that you're loved. And that continued after her transition. So, the night she actually died, the night she transitioned, I found a dime on her pillow. And it was so amazingly just profound.

[00:04:28] And since, I've had interactions with a lot of people who have either loved ones that have departed that leave them pennies or leave dimes or other things that happen. And so, that evolved into this, for me, what I call dime moments, which are when life presents something in a way that can't necessarily be explained through science or through logic.

[00:04:50] But it presents something to remind us that we're loved and that there's something bigger and more broad, more powerful, really, in play that can bring us into a present and more peaceful place. Yes. So, a dime to say, that's a dime to say I love you. And when you refer to her passing on, you say transition. Is there any reason why you use that term?

[00:05:17] Yeah, because death occurs to the physical, to the body. But the essence, the energy, the soul, Atman, a lot of different words exist, I believe, continues into perpetuity. It cannot be killed and it does not die. So, transition is what occurred. She still exists. It's that energy that was Lisa that I would now refer to as, you know, divine energy or love. Cosmic consciousness, if you will. Lots of different labels for it.

[00:05:46] That exists forever. So, she didn't die. The body died. The body went away. That physical instance that she embodied went away. But her essence transitioned and is still, you know, I consider her like an angel looking over me and continuing to give me reminders, be they dimes or other things that I'm loved and cared for and watched over.

[00:06:12] And that, you know, whatever may be present, you know, this too shall pass. It's helpful. As I was reading the book, it reminded me of some signs that my mom's left me throughout the years. And so, like, two things that really like symbolized my mom were hummingbirds and birds of any kind.

[00:06:35] And, you know, we've had a horrible hard winter here in upstate New York and the Cardinals started coming back. And I saw a beautiful red Cardinal the other day. And I just, I knew it was my mom. I knew she was just coming in to check in, make sure everything was okay. Because I've had a lot on my plate lately. Like, but it's 99%, you know, my fault for having a lot on my plate.

[00:07:01] But I also know that the hummingbirds are going to be back here in about a month. And I'm super excited about that because hummingbirds to me are bringing a sense of peace. They're incredible animals and full of love. And it just, it was some symbolism for me that I kind of needed just to kind of bring me back to my center. And I just, I loved, I just loved your book. It gave me the chills. It made me cry. It made me feel human.

[00:07:31] And that's really what I was looking for. I love that. And it was written, you know, it wasn't something I sought out to do. I'd never thought of myself as an author. But as I went through the experience and I've, I just see what's going on in our world and how much struggle there is, how much some, how much division there is. That the book was put out there.

[00:07:56] My attempt at, if I were to speak to my younger self, what would I say that would help me to get through some of the difficulties? I mean, I had a rough, you know, rough upbringing. And most people wouldn't know that. We don't know much about each other. Like we, we make so many judgments on the surface of who somebody is based on where they're at in life without knowing the experiences they've been through. And we don't tend to give people, you know, give them a break.

[00:08:24] Like sometimes, you know, people are going through tough times and we should be nurturing each other and nourishing and helping each other, not dragging each other down and dividing. Find the places where we can connect. So the book was my gift really to my younger self and to honor Lisa and her powerful life. And if it can touch one person and give them, you know, some things to think about. It's not a book that says, I have the answers. It's a book that says, I got some things maybe you could think about.

[00:08:54] Some questions that might help you open your heart a little bit more to living more fully and connecting more meaningfully with others. And being a force of good in the world. Like why not? Why not help each other and support each other? So it's landed beautifully and has started opening doors for me to do talks like this. And even talks in the business world, which I know, you know, you've talked about your exiting of that and your experience in the corporate world.

[00:09:23] And, you know, there's so much greed that exists out there. And yet there's so much possibility for that world to do good. Our political systems, our religious systems in many ways are failing us. And where can we look for places that can unite, that can bring connection, that can serve others.

[00:09:46] And I'm hoping to continue to be a voice for how we can get away from so much greed and get more into a place of support and care and connection for each other, even in those systems that exist in the world. You know, I have to laugh about, you know, another fucking growth opportunity.

[00:10:11] I look at my own life and my own, like doing my business and like mistakes I've made and things that I've learned from. And I just go back to another fucking growth opportunity because that's exactly what it is. Like it was a mistake I made. But you know what? If I didn't have anybody fucking teach me how to do it, I'm just going to call it growth. Right? There's no beating myself up about it. I had another one of those moments yesterday. But it was, you know, as it turned out to be a good thing. But it was another growth opportunity.

[00:10:39] And I love how we coined those types of phrases because even on our hardest days, like, yeah, another fucking growth opportunity. Really, like, it's okay to make mistakes, but it's also not okay to talk shitty to yourself. All right? And because we have the world that does that for us and they do a fine job of beating yourself up every single day. Don't beat yourself up. You know what? You make a mistake, move on.

[00:11:06] One thing that therapy did teach me is that, you know, number one, I can set boundaries. And number two, I just don't stay mad that long anymore. Like now I like stew on it for like 20 minutes and I'm like, okay, we got a fucking plan. We're going to move with that. It's either going to work out or it's not. But we're going to at 62 and three quarters, we're going to figure this shit out and hope to God that it pans out.

[00:11:30] And, you know, eight out of 10 times it does that other 2%, I'm like, oh, fuck it. Another growth opportunity. It was so helpful to, especially when we're, you know, literally faced with life and death, like no joke. And when things would go a direction that, you know, we just thought was terrible, we'd have to, like, you can't sit in that space forever. Like you have to bring yourself out and another fucking growth opportunity.

[00:11:59] We'd just look at each other and it could be really dire circumstances, but that would, because we'd been through enough to know that this too shall pass. Like whatever we're in the middle of. And, you know, the outcome might end up being death and it was at one point, you know, but you can't just sit in that.

[00:12:19] And that mindset of, okay, this is just, we're in the middle of a growth opportunity was a way for us to almost like laugh at things that otherwise would, you know, feel like they could kill us. So it was super helpful. It was super helpful. We're all going to go through shit, right? I mean, it's just like. Yeah. Good day, dude.

[00:12:48] Where does the resiliency come from for you though? Yeah, I think resiliency for me, not I think, I know. It comes from getting through something and then you look back and you realize, wow, I'm just a little bit stronger. And, you know, my favorite analogies to that, I love to train. I lift, love to lift kind of heavy weight. Just as I age, it's really helpful.

[00:13:12] And, you know, a workout is a process of breaking down those muscles and then they come back stronger. So resilience to me, especially on the mental or the emotional or even like the spiritual front and the physical front comes through those experiences that we get through. Like we learn from them, they're the afgos of those, you know, different genres, if you will, whether it be spiritual, mental, emotional, intellectual, physical.

[00:13:42] We go through these tough times. We go through experiences. And when we get through, we've gained something. Like sometimes they're scars, but, you know, those scars are reflection and proof. You know, like don't judge me by how many times I fell down. Judge me by how many times I got up. Don't judge me by my wounds, but know that my scars are the healings from that. And resilience comes through that.

[00:14:09] It's when you realize like, wow, I can do this. I got through that. And getting through the loss of someone who I didn't think I would lose, like I thought we would grow old together. She was an incredible, like she was Olympic caliber athlete and was taken, in my opinion, far too early. Somehow I did get through that.

[00:14:32] And in some cases it was only because of a commitment I made to her to not allow it to, you know, destroy me. Have me sitting on a couch with a bottle of vodka every day. You know, I really promised to her that I would not allow that to happen, that I would live a life to make her proud. Getting through that experience and looking back, it's like, wow, okay, I got through that.

[00:14:57] And I'm still finding a way to live and love and try to bring joy and happiness in the world however I can. And it doesn't mean I don't have unhappy days, right? But that is resilience. It's getting through something. And then knowing the new capabilities that you've built. Or really, to me, it's more the opening up. It's opening up the aperture on the possibilities in life and all that.

[00:15:25] Every single one of us has a gift, has magic, has something of value to bring into the world. Every single one of us is special. Every single hummingbird is special. Deer, you know, there's something that is special about every one of us. And my book is about how do you go find that and live into that. Like, quit trying to live a life that pleases the people around you. Give yourself some love.

[00:15:53] Figure out what really lights you up and how do you bring that light into the world. And connect with others that want to help you in that journey. And challenge you in that journey. And that's really at the core of why I wrote the book was because that's what I felt I somehow, have leaned into and learned and am continuing on the journey to try to uncover and do in the world.

[00:16:21] And it's such a more beautiful way to live when you don't have to hide in the closet. Because, I mean, I was in the closet, right, for years. Because I probably would have lost my job if I wasn't. At a point in time when, that we might be returning to now. Yeah. Yeah. Don't even say that. We'll continue to take a stand. Like, I'm not going backwards.

[00:16:57] Remember, joy is intentional. And no matter how shitty things are in this world right now, you can still find your joy. It doesn't take much. It's the sound of a little kid laughing. It is looking at a photo in your photo book of, like, something that made you smile. For me, it was the weather got to 77 and I got to put on shorts the other day. Those are the things that are important. And for, like, people that are out, like, searching for jobs and things,

[00:17:25] this is some advice that I've been giving people. Don't chase the money in the dream. Chase that joy. Because at the end of the day, that joy is going to carry you from, you know, an hour day to day. And, you know, a lot of people, you know, sit and listen to that. And I'm like, it's the truth. You know, here's somebody who was on Christmas Day 2022 sitting on the edge of the bed with a handful of pills waiting to be done. And I didn't do it.

[00:17:52] Because as Dirty Skittle said, you know, there was that glimmer of hope that things were going to get better. And they did. But, you know, not everybody has that. But I do want people to know that if you are willing to take a chance on yourself, you are completely worth it. Because you are loved, wanted, and needed in this world. And what may seem super shitty today, tomorrow could be so much better. So, you know, if you're in crisis, like, pick up the phone and call 988.

[00:18:21] Because it's not just about suicide ideation. It's about crisis in general. And that people do love you. And, you know, your book just, I don't know, it left something inside me. And so I'm going to pass it around to a few other people that can appreciate it. But, you know, when you have somebody in your life, like you had Lisa, I have my wife, I have Dirty Skittles.

[00:18:47] I have, you know, five people I can count on one hand that I could turn to at any moment. But you reminded me of things that I need to do while I'm still alive, right? Things I need to keep living. And like, as much as I miss my mom, you know, my mom's been gone over almost close to 30 years now. I still need to live my life. I need to continue to make herself proud, make myself proud, make her proud, make everybody around me proud.

[00:19:17] But at the end of the day, making myself proud. And that's something I've really strived for, like, over the last years, doing shit that makes me proud. Well, and look what you guys are doing in the world. I mean, you're clutching lives. You're making a difference for people. You're giving people safe space. You're giving space for people to grow, to understand more, to learn, to connect. And, you know, you talked about it. Self-love. Like, how do we take care of ourselves? How do we create the boundaries?

[00:19:45] And how do we, like, the book for me was basically revealing how powerful our vulnerability is in meaningfully and authentically connecting with others. Because that's when we really, like, cut through the crap of the trying to be perceived as something we think we should perceive, be perceived as that's good. When we get past that and say, you know what?

[00:20:13] I'm good enough just with all my imperfections. How do we create the boundaries of our insecurities? Things that make us happy are things that make us vulnerable. Like, that's when people are like, oh my gosh, I can see myself in that. And we can connect in ways that are so much more meaningful. It's powerful. Yeah. It's very powerful.

[00:20:45] How do you, God, I hope this makes sense, but how do you keep showing up every day? Like, do you ever get in, like, those, like, hard places where it's like, it would be so much easier to drink the bottle of vodka on the couch? Like, what keeps that drive for you going? Well, in the darkest times, like, in the early days when Lisa had transitioned, I literally, like, the one thing that kept me going was my promise to her.

[00:21:11] So, it was like, I am not going to not keep this promise. Break us. Because it was, that was a point of integrity for me. And now, the way, everyone has hard days. Like, we have things that happen. Loved ones, you know, I lost, my boy Pono, you know, was with me through the toughest times when he died. And, you know, other people in my life who have transitioned or are facing really tough things. Because they're hard.

[00:21:39] You have people dealing with cancer, dealing with Alzheimer's, dealing with grief of loved ones that have been lost, you know, suddenly and tragically. So, you know, life presents these things. But it's, for me, my practices are how do I balance it with getting out in nature and seeing that humming. I mean, I've got birds out in front. Seeing things in nature, you know, that's just such a calming influence. Meditative practices. I like to be outdoors in golf. I like to work out and be active.

[00:22:09] So, you know, I have to do things that nourish me. It's self-love. It's self-care. If I don't do these things, I'll get in, I can get in a funk. If I overwork myself and don't allow restorative time. If I don't surround myself with family and friends and laughter and joy. But to G-Rex's point, like, we cultivate it. The energy, we create our energy. We can cultivate love. We can cultivate happiness.

[00:22:39] But it has to be an intentional action at some point. You know, and who we surround ourselves. Like, if you want to see who you're going to be tomorrow, look at what you're doing and look at who you surround yourself with. And if you're surrounding yourself with people that are always negative, that want to drag you down, that want to tell you why you're not good enough, that's going to be really difficult. But if you can surround yourself with loved ones who will challenge you to be your best self.

[00:23:09] But also, you know, hold the mirror up and not just tell you what you want to hear. You know, tell you what they really see from a place of love. You know, so those are the practices, like, for me. And I'm blessed. I'm lucky at this point in my life. And it wasn't always this way. Like, I had points of my life where I didn't, I wasn't financially well off or I've worked my butt off. But I've done it. I've been blessed to be able to do things I really enjoy, too.

[00:23:38] G-Rex's point earlier as well. I've had jobs that I really enjoy. When I didn't, I sucked it up and got through it. And now I'm blessed to do things in the world that I really care about and I want to do. And that anchors in service, like, helping others where I can, whether it's mentoring. And frankly, I learn more from mentoring than I ever give. But the goal is nourishing.

[00:24:03] Like, when you give back to others, when you can, like, say, oh, my gosh, I did something to make the world a teeny bit better, whatever it may be, whatever little gift you can bring, that lights you up and it's uplifting. And it's, I think, the only way to counter the negativity that we're surrounded with right now in many ways. Yeah.

[00:24:28] I think where I struggle, like, my vulnerable, you know, we record the podcast, we talk about mental health. I learn 100% of the time from our guests. Like, it's totally coming from a selfish point of view of, like, what can I learn from this person? And, you know, whether it's I'm relating to their struggle or like your story inspiring me, right? I think where I struggle is finding or recognizing that we are also helping, right? Like, I'm just, like, I sit across from them.

[00:24:57] I'm like, wow, like, she went through this beautiful thing. She wrote a book. She's sharing it with the world. Like, and she's able to do that because she wants to help other people. I feel like us, I'm like, we're just chatting away and, you know, somebody's getting help. Wow. You know, like, like, I don't find those moments. And so sometimes it gets lost. It gets lost in the mix of like, what are we doing exactly? You know?

[00:25:21] And so I tell you that because did you set off onto this journey with that want to help other people? Or was it like, I just really need to get this story off my chest? Like, how did you get here? The book was, this may sound a little woo, but I'm just going to be frank. It was, I believe it was like divinely driven. The whole circumstance, I was like, I got a blind email from Forbes saying,

[00:25:51] hey, we think there might be a book in you. We'd like to talk to you. And I thought I was being punked. I'm like, what is this? Like I'm being spanned. It took like over a year before I kind of vetted them through a number of different avenues and realized it was true. Like this was a real entity. And then as I got into the process, like I just knew, I just, it was just like, I knew what the book was going to be. I knew what the lessons were because I'd lived it.

[00:26:20] It's like, I knew what the lessons were that were really meaningful to me. And then I had a clarity on if I was going to share these. So for instance, with my younger self, what were all of the things that contributed to me getting these lessons? And they weren't just going through the life experiences. They were also the practices, the books that I had read, the studying I had done on the spiritual

[00:26:43] path, some of the travel I had done that all conspired to shape me and to change me and to open up the way I look at it as open up my aperture on life. And so it became just so clear what the book was going to be, how it needed to be presented. Like I needed to include real events that were pretty like raw for me to share. Like I share about abuse as a child.

[00:27:13] I share about a suicide attempt as a teenager. I share about some of the really raw, gritty, like the last day Lisa was on the earth, you know, how that day happened. And I share it from a place of just full transparency because I was clear that the book, in order to meaningfully connect with someone and to really like, it's almost, it's like you think about a fertile ground in a garden to grow something. You prepare the soil.

[00:27:42] You have to nourish the soil. The stories are what open the heart. And then you plant the seed of the learning that then grows in someone's own space to be whatever is meaningful to them. Like what will help them? Because this story is not about me and the book is not about me. Ultimately, it's about what it can open up in someone else to give them a broader perspective

[00:28:07] on their journey and who they want to be in life and how it might help them to see things differently. So back to your original question, I didn't, I didn't really seek out like, oh, I want to help people per se. But I knew that the experience could be helpful to people and starting with myself or Lisa as a lens.

[00:28:32] And I wouldn't have put it out in the world for any other reason because I didn't want, I don't need or want my story out there. Like it's vulnerable. It's like, you know, and I sit on a corporate board, you know, I'm an executive in the world. Like, I don't need to be out in the world at that level. But doing that and sharing my story could help like a teenager not trying to take their life. Fine. I'll do it.

[00:29:02] I'll do it all day long. If it can inspire confidence in them, like, wait, you mean I could start my career with a hard hat and a tool belt and somehow end up as an executive? Like, how does that happen? I thought you had to go to college. I thought you had to have an MBA. Not everybody. Like, you can write your life. Like, you can create a life.

[00:29:26] So it did turn into being put out there as in service, hoping that it could, you know, help somebody. And it was the way that it, not being an author, the way that when I wrote was just like, it was almost like channeling. Oh, I was just so clear in how the structure needed to be and quotes from books I had read and other studying that I'd done and spiritual things that have influenced me.

[00:29:56] So it was, it felt like a channeling experience in many ways. Just have you always sort of gravitated towards that side of life? Like the very spiritual ways of living? Young, yeah, because of the young difficulties as a child and, you know, getting to a place where I was like 15 when I tried to take my own life.

[00:30:22] And it was because I didn't know how to process the abuse that had occurred, things that I was just, you know, stuffing down. I just finally came to a point where I didn't want, I didn't know how to live. I didn't want to live. It was too hard. And I was unsuccessful, thankfully, and found myself living in a Christian home in Kansas

[00:30:49] where I had been sent to fix me. And I, in the silence that existed there and the emptiness that existed there, I felt a strength that I didn't know how to even, what is this within? Like, why am I still here? What is this strength or this power that I feel within?

[00:31:11] And it prompted me at that young age to start a journey of exploring religion, spirituality, God, beyond the construct I'd been introduced to, which was one that unfortunately presented a lot of judgment and contributed to me wanting to take my life. Because of course, if I'm gay, I'm going to hell. So why would I want to live?

[00:31:37] So it just, that prompted this openness in my heart, if you will, to explore, like, there's other people in this world. What do other people think? And, you know, what's, what is this Buddhism stuff? What is this Zen stuff? What is Hinduism? What is Stoic philosophy? Just over the course of decades, broadening the aperture, learning different things, which

[00:32:01] then brought me the practices of meditation and contemplation that helped me to decipher the difference between the essence of me and the thoughts, the mind. Because our mind, you know, mental health and wellness and, you know, these thoughts that will tell us, you know, we should take our life or we can't do this or we can't, or we're bad or we're this or we're that. Like, we are not our thoughts.

[00:32:31] We have thoughts. We are not our thoughts. And that was like the first step of dissociation that helped me find strength and power was knowing that all this crazy stuff that goes on in my mind, like, that's not me. And oh, by the way, my mind is a very powerful tool. It's like this computer. If I get in the driver's seat of the mind, not have the mind be in the driver's seat of my life.

[00:33:01] And that to me is the core of the spiritual journey is who's got the reins of that mind? Is it the ego or is it at a more intuitive, deeper, more spiritually anchored place? And, you know, just listening to you and like how you went into like writing your book, the same thing happened with me. You know, I want my story to be a story of hope.

[00:33:27] You know, I took that really shitty day and turned it into something super beautiful. And I'm super vulnerable in the book. And, you know, I had like 15, 20 people give it a pre-read before I even decided to submit my manuscript. And they all told me the same thing. One, they couldn't put the book down. Two, they laughed and cried. And three, they walked away feeling empowered. And that's really what I wanted from my story is to let people know that it's okay to be broken.

[00:33:56] But you know what? That's not the end of your story. It's what you do with that brokenness to turn it into what the life that you've always dreamed of. And I will say that life is not always like sunshine and roses. No, it's not. But it was like one of the most cathartic things I've ever done because I got to really dig deep. And for me, I had kept all my journals of everything that I had been going through.

[00:34:24] And what was great about that whole journal process is like as I was reading through it, there was shit that happened that I didn't ever want to go back and revisit. So I would take those pages out. And then they're going to go in the fire because once they were out of my head and on paper, I don't have to come back in. And I think that's one of the joys of being able to write that stuff down because there's some things that we just don't need to go back and revisit. But there's other things that brought you so much joy that those are the things that

[00:34:53] you need to hold on to. And I think that's kind of what you did with your book is you put the things in the book that really mattered to you. I'm sure there's other things that happened in your life. They're like, nope, we ain't revisiting this ever again because, you know, it's done. And like I said, your book gave me chills. And I love what you've done with your life since then. You know, the fact that you're like an executive and like, if you're anything like me, I just

[00:35:22] don't give a shit how people see me anymore. I've hit that age. Once I hit 60, like I simply just don't give a fuck anymore. Like you don't like me, I don't care. But I, you know, I got to that point because I started doing the work on myself. Once I started working on me and making myself a priority, then I decided that whatever else happens, I don't give a fuck because I'm happy.

[00:35:48] And the spin I put on that too, I totally agree with you. The spin I put on that is I am way more focused on being fully within myself and just doing everything I can to live in my own truth and wholly and to nurture that and to bring good into the world. And so if others have a problem with that, they can have a problem with that. I can't control what other people do or who they're going to be.

[00:36:18] I can still try to find space to have care and compassion for every being as best as I can. Some days that's way more difficult than others. But my commitment is to just fully put into being the best me I can be. And some days it's better than others. And that's, you know, that's all I can do. And I love the work you are doing. You guys are doing work that matters. You know how many people you reach?

[00:36:50] Yeah. Listen, we're a little freaked out about that right now. So in a way that people just don't really understand. It's a little freaky for both of us. Because we started this never with the intention of hitting as many people as we did, as many listeners as we did. Yeah. We did it as a place to help us heal, especially help me heal.

[00:37:15] Because Dirty Skittles, not only she's my best friend, but we worked together. She was my manager at the time and she literally kept me from like just dipping out. I knew I was retiring soon, but we would laugh about things that people should never, ever laugh about. Ever. But the greatest thing about that is it reminded me that I'm human. And that even though I'm super fucking depressed, I could still laugh.

[00:37:42] And I wanted people to make sure that people felt seen and felt heard and felt valued. Right? Because when I went through my own shit, there wasn't a podcast like ours. Right? There's a ton of mental health podcasts out there, but they're boring as fuck. Okay? Like, go listen to anything. It's like Ferris Bueller's Day Off, right? Remember the teacher, Bueller? Bueller, like 30 fucking seconds in, I'm already asleep. Okay, what did I learn here? Nothing.

[00:38:12] So that's what we decided to do. And our greatest thing is just hearing from, you know, listeners and hearing from guests and having them thank us for what we do. Selfishly, we learn just as much as our listeners do. As, you know, every time a guest comes on, I get selfish because I want to learn. Because it's something that's going to help me be a better person. And, you know, I'm not done living.

[00:38:42] I mean, be on the cusp of like 6,305 every day. But I, you know, I want people to realize there's alternatives out there. And right? And that's what our podcast does. It gives people alternatives that maybe they haven't heard of before. And makes them feel like they can share their story. That they can take their masks off. That they can find joy. I don't know, maybe learn how to be kind again.

[00:39:09] Because I think society is kind of missing the whole point on kindness. But, you know, I get to do this with my very best friend. And... To pivot for a second. There's something that you had mentioned that I'm very curious about. You said that at one point, right? You're writing this story. You're sort of peeling back these layers. You're in your raw form. You're sharing this with people that are going to read it and digest it. And at that point, you know, you're...

[00:39:36] You also mentioned you're on the board of directors or an executive, right? And you have people reading this about yourself. And I... That is something that I'm so curious about. How did you... How are you okay with that? Right? Like, how did you find peace knowing that you're presenting, you know, one way in your work life, but you have this story for other people at any point to take and read and know more about you? Like, how do you make peace with that?

[00:40:06] So for starters, I present the same anywhere in my life. So whether I'm sitting in a boardroom or whether I'm, you know, with my family on game night, it's the same. And that has been decades-long process of bringing that together and not having to present separately. But the real... The root of the question, and that was something I really had to process, was...

[00:40:32] Like, things that are very personal about me are now out for anybody in the world. And that is... At its core, that is a vulnerable place, many would say. But frankly, because nothing in there... There is nothing in there that I wouldn't share if I was having a conversation one-on-one with someone. And that I had shared many times one-on-one with people over the years, the stories,

[00:41:02] and had heard, gosh, you should write a book. Like, that's... Are you... I can't believe, like, that happened or whatever. So because I was fully... I am, I was, and I have been fully living into who I am, including absorbing all of those things that... Some things I'm not very proud of that I've done in my life. Things that I'm thrilled about. Things that I wish would have happened and wish wouldn't have happened. I'm resolved to it.

[00:41:32] So it's like... It's out there. And I really felt strongly that... I was led to write this book. It was kind of like I was being told through nonverbal communications from the universe that this book wants to be in the world. And so I felt it was a responsibility, frankly. Like, I think when we have certain... We have privilege, right?

[00:41:59] Just being in the United States, in a Western country. I mean, I've traveled to a lot of different countries where... I mean, very, very difficult circumstances. People with bombs going off. I haven't spent time there. But I have spent time in India and in Asia and in places where there's a lot of poverty. We have a ton of privilege. And just because of where we're born.

[00:42:25] And I think with privilege, with monetary, you know, gifts or earnings, you know, that brings responsibility, in my opinion, for us to give back. Like, look, I felt like... I mean, I paid for it. And, you know, I put a book... It cost me a good amount of money, you know, to publish a book. I had no idea. But I was like, I've been given so many gifts.

[00:42:50] If I can channel those resources that I have into something that has the potential to impact, whether it's one life or whether it's 10 lives or whether it's more, that's my responsibility. And I'm going to do it. And I just felt like I was so clear on what it could be. I was so clear on how it could be impactful. Like, putting myself... I still read it. Like, when I'm having a tough day, I might be like, okay, I need a reminder about self-love. So I will go back and have the audible that I recorded.

[00:43:19] And I have my physical book. And I actually still find it... Like, sometimes I'll go on a walk and I'll just listen. And it'll just bring me into a better place. So I felt it was a responsibility. And if the sacrifice, if you will, in that responsibility, was that I had to be a little vulnerable. And, you know, I mean, if I wasn't out before, I'm way out now.

[00:43:49] There's no crawling back to the closet. Listen, girl, I told you. It's not happening. I've been out for so long, I'm never going back. No. And besides, there's some ghosts in there. It's... Yeah. I don't, you know... I just know how beautiful it is to... There's so many good things that come with living fully and being like, well, I guess there are no secrets anymore. So might as well just not... You don't have to worry about that. Like, you know, living in integrity is a powerful thing.

[00:44:17] And when our words, our actions, and our thoughts all align, you can live so much more peacefully. Because you don't have to have this... Like, think about people who, like, create their own reality that's counter to actual facts. Like, that's going on big time right now. But you are like... You have to constantly be thinking, okay, what did I tell this person? What did I tell that person? What story did I put out here? What really happened? Like, can you imagine...

[00:44:47] Wow, how complex and how stressful having to manage living a bunch of lies is. You strip all that away, and you just get... You get good with your history, and, you know, you go through whatever you need to accept things. Like, for me, I accept that I would not be the human being that I am today were it not for all my experiences. So therefore, even if there are things I'm not proud of doing, or things that I am happy I did,

[00:45:18] or proud of, whatever, they make me who I am. So if I am good with who I am, then by default, I must be good with everything that happened. I somehow have to resolve myself to that. And then if that's the case, I can write it down and put it out in the world. So that's how it kind of... Perfect. ...came to be. I'm yet to see. There may come a time where I'll be like, oh, shit. That sucks. I wish... And if so, you know, I made the best decision I could

[00:45:48] and did what I did. Okay. So my two final questions that I ask everybody. If you could go back in time to a younger version of yourself and give that younger version of yourself some advice, what would you tell yourself? And how old are you?

[00:46:17] Consciously, I'd probably take it back to 10, 11, 12 years old. And my main message would be, you're good enough and you don't have to prove anything to anybody. I love that. I love that. Especially at that age, right? What has been the hardest lesson that you've learned in your life so far? The hardest lesson that life is not

[00:46:46] going to give us any guarantees. Nothing in this... We're not owed anything for this life and nothing is guaranteed. So be present and live fully and don't allow bitterness in because nothing good is going to come from that. And the biggest lesson for me in kind of getting to that place was, you know, losing someone

[00:47:16] that I really like could so easily rationalize like this should not happen. It's not fair. It's not right. It's... This is not how it's supposed to be. But life isn't supposed to be any perfect specific way. It just is. So I don't know if that really answers your question but that's that's what came up. It does. It does. Thank you. Okay, so my questions are a little funner and you don't have to think so hard. What

[00:47:44] if your anxiety had a theme song what is it and why? I I don't tend to do a lot of anxiety and part of that is because I have some songs that bring me into joyful place and so everything by Michael Buble or the Gayatri Mantra by Deva Premal are like when I'm in a space if I'm just

[00:48:14] not feeling right or grounded I'll put on something like that and I can either like on one I can dance the other I can be more in a meditative state and it soothes an anxious mind or a mind that's feeling fragmented or something and it's like it's a daily practice for me some of those like music and the kind of music I listen to so I think it's almost a preventative to not I generally don't really

[00:48:44] feel anxious too much because I have put these practices in place on a regular basis music is awesome I love music yeah music is the bestest ever so what is your spirit animal a deer is coming up for me love that I love that I don't know they're just so graceful and peaceful and even when they're eating my fucking

[00:49:14] roses there's still like there's still something peaceful about them I mean we have a bunch of deer in the backyard that are pregnant so the fawns will be coming soon and I'm super excited about that I'm with you on the roses my roses I have neighbors that are like oh these deer eat everything I'm like you know what I like whatever you know what you've got eight and a half acres but if these roses do it for you they're all yours

[00:49:42] how can people find you Catherine catherinehenry.com is the easiest and they can contact me through that I am on social media I'm not a big social media poster but I have I have Instagram catherinemhenry LinkedIn for professional kind of context catherinehenry as well but my website catherinehenry.com is the easiest I love connecting with people too on their journeys and just learning from others and

[00:50:11] supporting others how I can and again thank you guys for the work you're doing in the world I absolutely love it and have been voting for you top mental health podcast thank you so thank you thank you so wild on so many levels you know just us being vulnerable again like weirds us out thank you thank you thank you so much for joining us hi all thank you so much for listening to this episode

[00:50:41] I'm G-Rex and I'm Dirty Skittles don't forget to subscribe rate and review this podcast we'd love to listen to your feedback we can't do this without you guys it's okay to be not okay just make sure you're talking to someone