Emily Busby: The Mental Load of Motherhood and Letting Go of Perfection

[00:00:01] Hey there, listeners. Welcome to Sh!t That Goes On In Our Heads, our podcast where we normalize conversations around mental health. That's right. I'm Dirty Skittles and alongside my amazing co-host, G-Rex, we're here to share stories and tips from our incredible guests. Each episode, we deep dive into struggles and triumphs of mental health, offering practical advice and heartfelt support because no one should feel alone in their journey.

[00:00:31] Join us as we break the stigma and build a community of understanding and compassion. Tune in and let's start talking about the shit that goes on in our heads. Three, two, one. Welcome back to another episode of Sh!t That Goes On In Our Heads. I'm here with the awesome Dirty Skittles and today we have a really amazing guest. Emily, welcome to the podcast. Emily Busby Welcome, welcome. Emily Busby Welcome for having me.

[00:00:59] Emily Busby Welcome, I'm so excited to get to know about you. I understand there's a book. What is the title of the book? Emily Busby The title is Mommy's Not an Octopus. Emily Busby Mom is not an octopus. What I would do if I was, all the things I could accomplish. Emily Busby Why the title? Emily Busby Yeah, I can give you a little backstory of how it all started because I never planned to be an author. This was not in my book of things to do. But honestly, we were in the kitchen. We had some friends over.

[00:01:27] Emily Busby We were drinking our margaritas. The kids were being chaotic and begging a million things from us. And my husband happened to walk in from grilling and kind of had one of those moments of like, girls, can you just chill? Mom's not an octopus. Emily Busby And he goes to me and he's like, that'd be a great children's book. And I was like, yeah, you know, whatever. And we kept moving on about our life. And then, you know, it clearly stuck with me because I kept thinking about it. I mean, you know what, actually, maybe we should look into this, see if there is a children's book out there about this. And kind of just talk about that whole concept. And obviously, I made it, you know, brought two steps further.

[00:01:55] But that phrase stuck with me. So I decided to turn it into a children's book. Emily Busby I love that. First of all, I love that he recognized that. I mean, I only have one, but he is more than enough for me. But I feel like not every, my husband doesn't. Mom is an octopus. Mom is an octopus. She can make your dinner. She could do this. She could do that. I'm like, oh my God, I'm so tired. So tired. Totally. So kudos to him. Yeah. Maybe Bissell needs to read that book.

[00:02:23] Yeah. I sit him down for bedtime. Mom is not an octopus. I love that. I feel like it's great. It's everyone can read it. All ages. Yeah. So what did you envision for yourself if you did not picture yourself to be an author? Yeah. So, I mean, I still am trying to figure out what I want to do in life, right? Aren't we all? I am in professional services. I spent seven years in finance before I made the switch here for the last four years.

[00:02:50] Of course, I just like to grind. I like to figure it out. I'm an athlete all my life. And I feel like I've always had that competitive drive to myself to just climb up higher and figure it out for myself. So I've switched around from, again, finance to more project management in the professional services world. So I like kind of a wide array of things. And, you know, obviously raising my babies has been the best blessing I've ever done, the best job, if you will, that I've ever had. But yeah, author, just tossing that one in there.

[00:03:17] Nice. Okay, cool. Do you, I guess, envision yourself writing another children's book? No. No. She said one in ten. Well, he's no. Not in life. I mean, being really honest, if there's ever a publishing company that came to me and said, hey, let's do something, maybe, but not self-publishing. It was a lot of work. And a lot of things. I mean, I learned a lot along the whole journey, but it was hard to manage with the kids and the job and everything else that I've got going on for sure. Gotcha. How many children do you have? So I have two. I have a five-year-old girl and a two-year-old girl as well.

[00:03:48] Five and two. That is lovely. Yeah. How about yourself? The one. One. One and done. And he is wonderful. He is my everything. I think the best analogy I've ever heard was it's like seeing your heart walk outside of your chest. And I was like, that makes sense. That's awesome.

[00:04:10] Yeah. But I went from never thought I'd get married, never thought I'd have kids. And then all of a sudden someone told me I couldn't. And I was like, I can. And I will. And here I am. I will. That's awesome. And how old is he? He just turned nine. Awesome. Which is wild because every day I look at him and I'm like, who's this teenager? I bet. He's also in like, I'm letting my hair grow out phase, mom. Okay. And it's past his shoulders, which is very long, in my opinion.

[00:04:40] And because he's a boy and I've heard boys are like, you know, little grungy little demons. And so I have to teach him how to wash all of that hair. But he's nine. So he's like, I don't really need to wash it. It's fine. Body wash. Let the water. It's going to be fine, mom. I'm like, no, son. If you want long hair, you got to take care of it. So that's our struggle right now. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have any kids. I have five cats and my wife.

[00:05:09] I'm looking more than two kids. Yeah. Yeah, because cats are assholes. That's just it. They're all little assholes. Are you like open to talking about your life? Absolutely. Let's do it. Okay. Where did you grow up? So I grew up, well, I was born in New Jersey. So I'm a Jersey girl. I got a little feisty in me. Then I moved to Massachusetts when I was five and grew up in Massachusetts. And then since we located to Southern New Hampshire, since having our girls.

[00:05:39] Okay. I'm a New England girl. I grew up in Rhode Island. I'm not going to name the city because it's so shitty. I'll never go back. But I was born in New York, New Jersey. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I grew up, sure. I grew up in a city called Monsauket. Monsauket, Rhode Island. Don't go there. Don't recommend it. But I love New England. And so it's funny because like later on in life, I think I appreciate the things that I hated as a kid.

[00:06:08] Growing up in New England, I just wanted to get out. Like that was the end all be all for me. Like no way I'm going to stay here. And we had my son. I think he was probably like six ish. And we decided to take a trip to New England because he, his birthday is in October. Naturally, he loves all spooky things. And I'm like Salem, Massachusetts, obviously. Yeah. And so we did this whole New England tour and we did Cape Cod, like all the New England

[00:06:37] things, Vermont, Maine, Cape Cod, Salem. And then we came back home and through it all, I just realized how much I loved it. And I was like, dude, why did I hate it so bad as a kid? And I was like, probably Woonsocket. Probably Woonsocket. I was like, that's why. Yeah, yeah. But okay. So grew up in New England. Did you foresee yourself having the career that you have now? Or did you have like other dreams? I feel like when I was in college, I was very like more, what did I say? I don't know.

[00:07:07] I'm trying to think of what I studied in college. I guess I was a psych major. I was thinking more like law, maybe some physical therapy, like the athletic background, maybe a little bit. I really didn't know what I wanted to do. And then I just honestly happened to make a connection. So I played ice hockey and lacrosse at a D2 school. Yeah. I happened to make a connection with one of the men's hockey players, dads, who worked in finance at the time. I had a big company down in Boston and they had an internship program for rising seniors in college. And I applied just to kind of have something on the resume to go into my senior year with.

[00:07:35] And I ended up falling in love with one of the rotational managers that I worked for. She was just a phenomenal... She was such a work mom and just wanted to take me under wings. She liked my work ethic. And I ended up staying in touch with her. And she got me into a management rotational program out of school. And then I just... I honestly would fall... I'd still... I still stay in touch with her today. And I'd follow her around if I could. Like a little duckling. She's just phenomenal. I honestly fell in love with more like her and how she wanted me to grow and learn than I did finance or anything, if I'm being honest. So yeah, I'd say quite the plot twist for me.

[00:08:07] Did you always want to be a mom? Yes. I 100%. My sister is 10... I have a brother who's 16 months older than me. And I have a sister who's 10 years younger than me. So I feel like I naturally always was just more motherly with having a younger sister. And I was always able to help my mom. And I always loved babysitting and all of that. So I do... I definitely think I knew I wanted to be a mom. Always. Man. Okay. All right. I feel like most are like, stay away. Like no kids. Let me live my life. Let me travel. Let me... And I was like, nope, let's go.

[00:08:37] Nice. I'm curious. This is going to come... Probably be out of left field, but... Do you... Did you find motherly instinct easy? Yes. See? I feel like that's the thing. I feel like when... Well, it's my own weird, uneducated hypothesis.

[00:09:06] But I'm like, anytime I feel like a mom has wanted to be a mom, they have this motherly instinct that comes naturally to them. And maybe I'm wrong. For me, I was like, oh no, I'm a party girl, workaholic. Didn't really want kids. I decided later on in life to have them. And I remember one of the most jarring yet, like life, I guess, turning moments for me was my mother-in-law, actually. My son was really young. He was less than a year old. He was an infant, basically.

[00:09:36] And he was crying. And I remember her saying, well, what's wrong with him? Like, what does he want? Like, you know, because you're the mom. And I remember that moment being like, oh shit, am I supposed to know? Like, I didn't know I'm supposed to know. But I loved that later on because it did, I think, kick it into gear for me. I was like, oh shit. Yeah. I need to take this seriously. Like, I have a child now who's dependent on me. I am the mother and the expectation is that I'm going to figure this out or I'll know what they need.

[00:10:04] And so then it became like a game. Like, I had to trick myself in my brain of like, every night when he was going to lay down and go to bed, I would hear every noise. I would wake up. I would warm the bottle. I would have that. Like, I made it a game. Like, can I do this without waking him up? I could hear him like rustling. I'm like, okay, we're up. Bottle's warming. Diaper's ready. I'm changing the diaper. I'm swaddling him and I'm feeding him and he hasn't even woken up yet.

[00:10:34] But I had to learn, I guess, this instinct that comes naturally for some people. So... Yeah, but here, I'm going to ask you a question. Do you think that's a natural thing? Or do you think that's just society puts it on us that we have to have this like feeling of this vibe that we get it or we don't? Or do you think that we just... I feel like everyone innately knows to some level. But also at the same time, I didn't know what I was doing. I had to learn all the same things. Even though I... Yeah. Yeah, I deem myself as yes, I was motherly. I feel like that's a huge like society thing and social media thing at the same time.

[00:11:04] That's the thing, right? Like, I think it is... If I could say, I think it is a little bit of both. Where I think it's very much expected to some degree that as a woman, you will do these things or have this way about you. But... Oh, my husband. If you listen to this episode, maybe now is the time to tune off. I don't think he could adapt the way I could.

[00:11:30] So I do think that's where the motherly instinct kicked in was that there was something natural about it where I was able to adapt where I don't think he could have. Yeah. So it's weird. It is weird. Yeah. But the pressure is wild, for sure. But that's why I give kudos to moms. Like, you guys have to be always on, even when you're at work, right? Because the kids are either in school or daycares or maybe out with dad or grandma. You guys always have to be on.

[00:12:00] And so my question back to both of you is, what do you do when it gets to be too much being a mom? When you do feel those octopus moments like you have? And it's a question for both of you. I'm gonna let you go first, Emily. I just toss it over. I mean, that's such a big... I could go so many different ways with that. And I think I would answer differently five years ago when I first became a mom, a year

[00:12:29] into motherhood. And then now after I've started to get myself the right help that I need with my therapist, right? So let me think of where I want to start with it. I think the invisible load is one of those that's just not talked about, frankly, that often. And when it is, it's almost too late. And I don't think that there's a great common language to talk across, whether you're talking to your children, your husband, your mother-in-law, your wife, whoever it is, right?

[00:12:56] There's not a common language that we can all get on the same page with, frankly, in my opinion. And that's one of the main goals that I had in this book was really to create a common language that you can really get across different generations and different populations, frankly. I think when it gets too much, we have this expectation that we're now not grateful. We're not capable. We're not patient. We're not available. We're awful moms. When in reality, anxiety and depression, right? They can all coexist. We can have a mental load that feels overwhelming.

[00:13:26] And to be able to shift that and reframe that and ask for the help and set those boundaries and take a step back and say, I need to do something for me. That may be a five-minute cry in the closet. That may be calling my mom if I have a mom that's really involved. That may be, I don't know, you name it. That may be putting baby in a safe space in a crib to let them cry safely for five minutes so I can go do something. I can pee. I can get a glass of water, whatever it is, right? Depending on your stage or season. But to be able to reframe that takes a lot of work and takes a lot of strength to get

[00:13:55] to the point where you're not connecting, asking for help and feeling like a failure with perfect, like I'm putting that along perfection. And I think for so long for me, I, and the athletic background definitely did not help this, but I always just figured like if I stay disciplined, if I keep pushing, I'm going to figure it out, right? Like I'm going to figure this out. I'm going to get my goal. And it helped me for so long in life, but motherhood hit. And frankly, athletics taught me to push through, but motherhood taught me when pushing through is no longer the answer.

[00:14:24] And that kind of perfectly aligns with his mental health and the silent, you know, mental load that we don't know how to necessarily speak. Like if I'm on a work call, I may also be thinking in between when I'm talking and kind of facilitating a call. I may be thinking, oh, did I restock the diapers? Oh, I need to build that appointment, right? Oh, is my husband doing pickup or is it me? Oh, what's for dinner, right? Like my brain just constantly goes and goes. I can't shut that off and not be able to speak about that or not feel like I can speak about that because I didn't want to feel ungrateful for this life that we built.

[00:14:53] That took me a long time to come to. A long time. Yeah, no, I, there's like, there's so many things I want to touch on for this. Hearing you just now speak about it, it reminded me of also like, I think there's something to be said about your mental state before being a mom. Because I hear stories, we've had guests on the podcast who talk about their experiences

[00:15:23] and I remember the first time, again, less than a year old, brand new mom. I finally got to go take a shower at home. We had just moved, by the way. We moved when he was four days old, States, right? I was pumping in the car driving from Florida to Georgia while my infant was in the backseat and I'm following my husband in the car, right? So like your hormones are all out of whack.

[00:15:50] I finally get home, I put him down, I go to take a shower and somebody had got me like the mommy and me bath kit and it was a vino lavender scented body wash for mom and baby. And I'm in the shower and like, I was sobbing. Like I was sobbing, not because I was just like, wow, this is a mommy made soap. Like I get to take care of myself. Like how rare is that? Like I'm doing this for me.

[00:16:19] And it was like completely eyeopening because I thought, holy shit, I never would have thought that I'd get so emotional taking this shower with the smell of lavender. But it was more than that. It was like, wow, I'm actually doing something for myself. Because I think being a new mom, at least for me, I began to feel like an instrument, like you weren't a human being anymore, right? Like you are a product of, you are a mother now and that's all you'll ever be.

[00:16:45] And then realizing like, oh shit, I can be more than this. And I don't think that if I would have been in a worse mental state before being a mom, that I would have had the wherewithal to know and recognize those signs of like this, there's something more going on here. I need to talk to a therapist. I need to have my space. I need to prioritize taking care of myself first. I was able to do that and make those choices. And I just don't think that everybody has that ability to do so.

[00:17:15] And that really fucking sucks. Yeah. It's just really shitty. It is. And one other thing I'd add too, I think that no matter how much you try to speak with someone and whether, I don't want to say warn them, right? Because that's not the right word, but you can try to have these conversations, whether it's someone you're close with or not. But at the end of the day, until you're in that dark stage of early motherhood, there's no way to prep for that. There really is not other than you think you have your village, right? For example, I was the first to have a kid on either...

[00:17:44] For any friends groups, both sides of our family, the village that I now have and the village that I've created for other people after I had my first kid and experience or didn't experience what I probably wish I had, that doesn't come from just having a village, right? You can have a village of people, but if they're not in those early dark days with you, it's really hard. And you can't... There's nothing that can prepare you for that. And frankly, sometimes... And I hate that this is how it is. And I wish that there was an answer.

[00:18:09] But until you hit that rock bottom and you hit that dark experience as a postpartum mom, especially a first timer, like... I don't know. I just wish there was a magic way to fix it because there's no way. Like I can't tell you how many people I've tried to have these conversations with. Like these are some of the things, intrusive thoughts happen in this. And it's normal. I put it in quotes because it shouldn't be normal, but it's normal, right? These things are happening. I can't tell you how many times I walk down the stairs with my newborn being like, oh my God, what if I fall? And then she falls and then I fall on her and then she's cracking her skull.

[00:18:38] Like the intrusive thoughts alone are just horrifying. And then I'm like, if I say this to my husband, he's going to think I'm crazy and I need to go to the doctor and I need to be... You know, straight jacket. And what are they going to think of me? You know, just your brain just goes. And there's no part of that, which is awful. And I don't know how. Yeah. How's an answer? No. Yeah. And I think I wish like if I could change anything about like the healthcare system in this moment right now, as we're having this conversation,

[00:19:05] I really do wish that they would prioritize the mom's mental health more. Like I wish that there was like, okay, you just had a baby. Instead of like, boom, you're out in three days or however long. I wish that there would be like a secondary program, like something where you can go back and check in with someone and talk about just kind of level setting. Because as a new mom, like you say, like I remember like my biggest fear was us in the car. Like I'm like, oh my gosh, what if somebody hits us?

[00:19:35] He's in the back seat. I can't like it was... I was terrified to drive with a newborn. So, and then again, it's like, like I kind of heard of like postpartum depression and like signs still got for, but you, nobody prepares you for when it just hits, right? Like, oh, all of a sudden you're having those thoughts and how devastating it feels. Because then you're like, holy shit, why am I thinking this? Like, what's going on? And not having that, that resource that I wish that earlier on,

[00:20:06] they would prioritize that more. And it's more than just a checklist, right? Like you're six, what are the six weeks they see us back? And it's like, no one in there in that moment is going, I mean, I hope that people do use it. But like for me, right? I was definitely had general anxiety and postpartum depression at that point, my first, and it only got worse around four months. But my couple appointments, I 100% had it, but I wasn't checking those boxes. I didn't, I was just like, I'm probably just tired. This is probably normal.

[00:20:36] And it felt like, it's so insincere on most of those appointments. Like there definitely is something added so that moms can truly, you know, let their guard down, be vulnerable and express these things. Because frankly, they could have just said, oh yeah, this is normal, right? You're going to have intrusive thoughts. There's nothing wrong with you. But I was afraid that someone's going to take my baby if I said that. And not because I was harming my baby, but it was all in my head. Right. I was very much like, oh, like I remember being so focused on him, like at the doctor's office, like, how's everything going? I'm like, he's doing great.

[00:21:06] Like everything was fine. And then my mental game of like, no, everything's going to be fine. I'm just tired. I'm just tired. Everything was, I'm just tired. But there, there was more to it. And yeah, it just, it sucks that, you know, we have to sort of play this survival game and not necessarily, you know, check in with our doctors or, I don't know. I also wish the programming was a little bit different. Like they force you to take a note of like what's going on. Take a beat.

[00:21:32] I think that, you know, doctors, if any of them are listening right now. Like if you have patients that are like brand new moms, like check in on your patients, check in on the moms, because I know you dirty skills. I know that you will tuck it away in your little head and you won't say anything. Yeah. I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. Emily, you might've been the same way. So what would be one thing that you would be willing to give away from,

[00:22:00] if your hands were full, your sanity or your cup of coffee? Are you asking me? I'm asking both of you. Hands were full. If your hands were full. My cup of coffee, because I don't drink coffee. That's an easy one. Oh, I mean. One of those like crazy moments that I had. Well, I've never really loved coffee, but I never wanted to get to a point where that was the only way I was functioning in motherhood. So I never let myself have it, which is probably so rude of myself, because I probably would have had a much nicer experience.

[00:22:32] Never went down the road. Wow. You know, I remember feeling great because like I gave out caffeine when I was pregnant. I was like, wow, I feel wonderful. Like I feel fantastic right now, but I couldn't wait to get back to, that's like my little comfort. That's like my little hug of like in the morning, my cup of coffee. I used to wake up actually earlier than baby so that I could have quiet time in a cup of coffee. So like that's, you're making me choose right now. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, my coffee is my sanity.

[00:23:02] How are they different? But no, I mean, in reality, I would give up coffee any day. I just, I think the way that you guys both view motherhood is like spot on. And I can only imagine what my mom went through. I mean, there were four of us. It was, there was a two year difference and there's a seven year difference between me and my youngest sister. Like, I don't know how they did it. Okay. We were not kind children.

[00:23:31] I mean, we were, but you know, it was a lot. And so like, what do you guys both do to protect your mental health? Especially when you're, it has something to do with your kids, right? Like it could be somebody got in trouble in school or they did something horrible. And then you have, add that work element into that and just your day-to-day life.

[00:23:58] Like what are the things you guys do to protect your mental health? Because that's really important. Well, you know me, I have therapy. I need to have a professional assist me. But I think something that I really value and hold pretty close is giving a name to my emotions. Because my child, Nugget, we call him Nugget.

[00:24:24] He is so observant and hyper aware of my emotions and my feelings to the point where if I'm having a bad day, he can just tell by the look on my face that something is wrong. And so I never want to mask what I'm feeling because I want him to be able to identify it if he ever feels that. Or at least I want to be honest with him in a way he can understand as a nine-year-old. So I would say that helps me prioritize my mental health because it's almost like a check in on myself.

[00:24:54] Like, am I, do I need five minutes before I can interact? If so, I'm going to be like, hey, dude, you know, like I'm really tired. Just give me like five minutes and then I'm all yours or whatever that is. So that's how I'm prioritizing mine, but also a little bit of his. So that's something I have to do that. I love that. I feel like for me, the physical thing I make myself do every weekday when I can is I go to the gym for an hour. I'm in and out, get my workout in and I'm a better human being. I'm a better parent.

[00:25:23] I'm a better wife. You name it. I'm better when I get my workout in. And it took me until December. So four and a half plus years, almost five years to allow myself to take that hour for myself. After being an athlete all my life, I just, when I got pregnant with Charlie, my first daughter, I had such a horrible pregnancy with both of them. I was sick in the beginning and just never. I pulled my round leg a bit and things that just made it really hard for me to work out, which is fine. But it really shut that off.

[00:25:50] And so it took me almost five years to get back at it and giving myself that hour and allowing myself that grace to take care of myself. I don't even want to say first because it's kind of like my second or third shift of the day at that point. But allowing myself to do that has really helped. But I think what you said about being very honest with your kids, that's been something I've been trying to do a lot more lately. And like allowing myself to apologize, right? If I lose my shit and I'm going to yell at you because I've asked you five times that I've just had a long day,

[00:26:16] I'm going to turn around when we're good and I'm going to say, I'm really sorry I yelled at you and we're going to talk it through. I don't think we ever got that from my generation, at least from my parents. Like there was no apology. It's not a dick. I love my parents. They're phenomenal. I love them. I'm so grateful for them. But like that generation, it's just different. Like we were not apologized to. We are not told and talked to in the same capacity that we're now. Our generation is now talking to our kids and how we kind of treat them more. I don't know, a little more compassionate, I think is the right way to put it.

[00:26:44] But I mean, I just think that's allowing myself to do that and allowing myself to make mistakes with my kids. And again, being able to talk them through. So they learn from that as well. That's been really helpful for my mental sanity. So I'm not going to bed as guilty as I otherwise would be. Yeah, there's something about being honest. And like, I think once I realized I don't need to be perfect. I just need to be honest and like tell him what's going on. Like the pressure was off. There was like a pressure release valve of like, oh shit.

[00:27:14] Because I think before I was so like, oh my God, what if I mess up? What if I mess up? What if I say something wrong? What if I hurt his feelings? What if I, and like, just it was so suffocating and stifling. And I would never do that anyways, right? Like I love this kid to death. Like I would never hurt his mental health. So I think just the fear of messing up as a new mom was pretty brutal.

[00:27:38] So yeah, once you took that off and really set pressure and see your child as a human being, it was like, oh, okay, I can do this. Like it's going to be okay. And how cool. Because like, what are we teaching our kids when we do that? Right? I think for so long too, for me, I was trying to like show this perfect person. And I didn't want my daughter, even when I just had one, I didn't want her to see my exhaustion and all that. But once you realize, like you open up the doors and let them see you as a person and that you make mistakes and that you have limits, like you need to set boundaries.

[00:28:06] You're now teaching your kid that it's okay for them to do that. Like we want our kids to, we don't want to hide and make them think that they have to be perfectionist. Like that's not right either. So I feel like when you are able to get to that point of letting it down, it is such a, to your point, like it just is such a weight off your shoulders. And like, wow, okay. Like we're doing good. We're okay. Yeah. Do you have, oh, go ahead, G. I was just going to say, Emily, like when you do that, you're teaching your kids resilience and teaching them how to pivot. Because a lot of times I like, even in my case, you know,

[00:28:36] I didn't really learn how to do that until I was in my late fifties. Okay. Y'all are learning this now, you know, sooner rather than later. And I think that's such a great trait to be able to teach kids. It's being able to just pivot in a heartbeat like today. Dirty Skittles lives in Georgia. She lost power this morning. We had to record our very first episode this morning on her cell phone. I mean, that's a pivot, right?

[00:29:06] And yeah, it showed that we're resilient. And then we can like kind of figure this out. Five years ago, if this had happened or even four years, I probably would have reacted differently. You'd have taken out. A ton of therapy and just having to get through my own shit. I mean, I'm like really proud of both of you. You're showing up for your kids and you're showing up as your authentic self. You're not hiding behind a mask and letting them see that you're human. And I think, you know, I go back to thinking about that dumb movie

[00:29:35] you make me watch a thousand times a year. Inside Out? Inside Out 2. It's wonderful. Such a great movie. Mm-hmm. It makes me cry. Thank you. But it reminds me that we can wear our emotions on our sleeves and that, you know, that you guys are teaching your kids all the great things. So, you know, I praise you both. I don't, like I said, I don't have kids. I have five cats and my wife. And I think that's enough. That is a great movie. FYI.

[00:30:06] I'm going to tell Emily because every time we have somebody out, anytime this movie is mentioned, I have to like rave about it. But Inside Out 2, I go to the movie theaters to see it with my son. We loved part one. And I loved it because I want, it helped us, me and my son, have a conversation in a way he could understand. And so when the second movie comes out and we go to the movies to see it, and I realized then that there's a new character called Anxiety, which I struggle with. And so I'm sitting in this theater and it's just me and him.

[00:30:36] And Anxiety is spinning out. It's that like scene where she just can't control everything. Like just tears, like just rolling down my face because I was like, wow. For me as an adult, being able to see it in a child, in a children's movie, the feeling nailed exactly how I felt. And so we wrap up the movie and we're driving home. And somehow we start having this conversation. And I said, you know, anxiety? Because he goes, which one of those do you feel? And I was like, Anxiety.

[00:31:06] That's me, that character. That's how I feel. And he was like, mom, oh my gosh. And so like, whenever we are having a tough day, he can pinpoint, oh, I'm really angry. Like he knows the emotion based off that movie. So that movie is fucking good. Side note, funny note, I didn't tell my husband about that movie. And he took him to the movies to see it too. Cried at the same scene. I'm just saying. He's like, why didn't you tell me? Experience it yourself.

[00:31:36] I love that because, and I think that's part of why I, this book came to fruition, why I wanted to bring it to fruition, frankly, because like the movie, right? There's such a deeper message. And while it's like kids, it's also speaking to the adults. And this book, I started writing it. Like I initially was just writing for the kids. Like there was no me involved at all. And as I started writing it, I don't want to say it was emotional, but I felt like I was being, I felt seen almost in my own silly children's words. Simple, like maybe six words a page, right?

[00:32:06] But I felt seen. I felt like I was talking to myself almost. And then as I really reflecting on once I had it together, I really realized that the octopus represented kind of like an impossible expectation that we, honestly, as mothers hold on ourselves that we're able to do everything at once. And then it became this playful reminder that we do have limits. And so for me, as I kind of really reflected as the book was coming to finalization with the illustrator and everything, I realized it's really a, it was a permission slip for me to stop expecting perfection out of myself.

[00:32:34] I don't have to be endlessly available. I don't have to be endlessly patient. I really just need to be present and loving and honest. And that's all I needed. And my hands were enough. My two hands were enough. So I agree with you on that movie. I think that it is such a great tool that we can give our kids. And that is exactly, I think what I wanted to bring through this book too. I love that. How do you know when you're at your limit, when you are doing enough, when you have no more hands to hold anymore? How do you know? Like what, is there a flag or trigger for you?

[00:33:05] I can feel myself. I'm about to flip that switch. I mean, in our house, we do use the phrase, mommy's not an octopus. If I'm getting, if anyone's getting to that point of like, I'm going to lose it. I'm about to flip that switch. We try not to. Obviously it happens all the time. No one's perfect in our house and we're still working through it. But we try to use that phrase often around here. And my two-year-old understands what it means in her little brain. My five-year-old understands it to a different level. My husband understands it to a completely different level, right? And I feel like it's been, it's really nice to have that common language.

[00:33:33] But I think this stuff also comes up so differently for every single person. So I don't know, when my husband's about to lose it, he's a completely different person and has different triggers than I do, right? And same for you, right? Like when you're about maybe blow up or feel like you're going to, like it's going to present differently for you. And I think this book and some of the activities I kind of created on the side, on the website that people can download a print really allows you to talk as a family and kind of talk through these things and what that means for everyone separately

[00:34:01] and how we can all be more empathetic towards each other and what we're going through as we're kind of setting some of those boundaries. So I don't think I have like one minor to give you to that question because I feel like it really is changing day to day. I'm trying to work on it more and more. Yeah, no, I love that. And I love that you're creating a tool that will help have those conversations, especially like considering your journey, this wasn't something you thought you would set out to do, but you're doing it.

[00:34:29] And it's like now, just so you know, I'm going to use that phrase in this house. I'm like, mommy is on an octopus. So it's like, I love that you're able to do that for families. And yeah, you're making a difference. So thank you for doing that. I think it's such a great tool, you know, for new moms. And it would be great if this book was given out. As really.

[00:34:54] Every, you know, OBGYN to new moms and be like, you know, use these. It's a tool, right? And like you can say no and you can have time for yourself and you can't, you can't take a beat. And I like, I'm telling you, moms are like some of the most resilient, like bounce back pivoters that I've ever met.

[00:35:22] Like nine times out of 10, shit is not going to go your way. But you guys kind of like figure it out. And I love the book. Like I said, because I don't have kids, I'm still going to read the book because I have friends that have kids. I'm like everybody's favorite aunt. Okay. Like if you want your kids to get a sugar high and do a lot of shit you don't want them to do, send them to me. Yeah. That's all. I love the, of what you just said. Like it would be cool to have that given out.

[00:35:52] Like as you're leaving the hospital, like a little care package of like books like that would just help new moms. Because there's not a handbook, right? Well, there are handbooks, but okay. They're also like podcasts like that too, right? It's like Bueller. All you hear or read, Bueller. Okay. Listen, when I went through my own shit, I listened to podcasts like that. I'm like, fuck, this didn't help me. And now I'm asleep. So maybe sleep was the better option. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think?

[00:36:22] I don't know how you feel about it, but I feel like we're almost in this, this state of information overload with like the state of social media and what's out there. And especially as like a new mom, it is so easy to get sucked in so hard, so deep and so dark, frankly. Honestly, actually, you could step away from motherhood and just say in life, right, with social media. I feel like we've gotten so comfortable judging one another and putting on a piece behind a screen. And it just, the way that it creeps into motherhood specifically, personally, I've experienced it, right?

[00:36:51] It's just, it's so ugly. And you just start to think about like, why are we doing the things we do? And to your point, there's no textbook for how to raise a kid, for example. It's not like you leave the hospital and they're like, here, this is everything you need. You're going to do great. You literally are on the side of the curb. Like I'm in a diaper. I think my daughter is in a diaper. She's staring at me. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. And like, I have to drive home. Like, it's just, I feel like we need to get back to the roots of like, instead of asking, are we doing things correctly? Like, just be more supportive of other people,

[00:37:21] no matter what it is. Again, whether we're talking motherhood or not, just be as I like, call it a mom's mom. I'm not going to judge you. I'm not going to give advice if you don't want it. I'm not going to judge or, you know, I'm going to celebrate your choices without needing to make them my own. It doesn't matter that I do something differently. We're just going to support others. And again, you can broaden that across. It doesn't have to be just to moms, but we've just become, it's come, it's just so ugly out there. And it's scary as a mom to get trapped into these things, right? That just feel so, I don't know,

[00:37:50] prescriptive when that's not how it is at all. Yeah. I call it the highlight reels. It's like seeing the perfect mom with the beautiful house and she looks gorgeous and like put together. And you're like, what the fuck? And like, I'm barely making it through the day. You know what I mean? But that is the toxicity. I think of it is like the portrayal of, I am the perfect mom. And it's like, no, dude, we're all different. Can't judge somebody for it. And no, I'm not any less than you are

[00:38:19] just because I don't look, my motherhood doesn't look like what you're, what you got rolling on. But. Like, I don't know how the two of you do it between corporate America and raising a family and then all the other stuff that comes in to play on your day to day. Like, God bless you both, man. I know I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have the patience for it. But like you, like, you know, Skittles and I worked together for years and, you know, like if your kid's sick,

[00:38:49] man, that's your first priority. And like any managers or anybody out there that is a manager and you don't have kids, you don't get it. You don't, like, don't be a dick. All right? Like, honestly, please. Simple. Don't be a dick. Don't be a dick. Just don't. Like, until you have your own kids, you don't realize all the things are going through your mind when the school, when the school calls you at work or the babysitter, you know,

[00:39:18] sometimes you just have to let work go because your number one priority are your kids. Mm-hmm. So, like, I don't know. I'm going to just say it again. Don't be a dick. Don't be a dick. One of the things that will help me and this was when I started working with my therapist and life coach about a year ago or so, she explained a couple different concepts at a high level that have helped me through that piece specifically and one being glass and plastic balls. So we have a concept. There's glass balls in our life and there's plastic balls in our life

[00:39:48] and the glass balls, we cannot let drop and the plastic balls will bounce. They'll be fine. So when things shift in different seasons, whether your kid is sick, whether something changes, whatever, you remember what the glass balls are, which is your kids, right? And the other main priorities that you have in your life, everyone's different. And those plastic balls, that laundry, that work call that you can make every week, all that stuff that's plastic and you let that bounce and you don't even think twice about it. That really helped me mentally become okay and not stress and get to these anxiety attacks when I had a sick kid come home

[00:40:17] or when I felt that I couldn't manage all the things that I'm signing myself up for. So that was, that really helped me. And then she also taught me a lot about the word and that you can a feeling and another feeling or something such as ambition and also be stressed out about all the things that you've signed up to do. And that also was like mind-blowing for me because I never think I allowed space for two things at once, even if they were the opposite. So those two things going along what you were saying is just like having the career and all these things, how do you,

[00:40:47] like juggling it basically, those, those kind of changed my life over the last year. I like that, that visual of the glass balls. I like that a lot. Yeah. Okay.

[00:41:20] All right. I have two questions for you. Okay. Question number one. Look, when you get both of our questions, you let me know which one's going to be harder because I love these questions, but I'm so thankful I'm not put on the spot for those ones. Okay. So if you could go back in time to a younger version of yourself and give that younger version some advice, what would you tell yourself and how old are you?

[00:41:51] Oh man, I have two answers for that. I have two different options. Okay. All right. Let me go back to the more like life practical one. I'd say I'd probably go to 25 and not to change my life at all, but to reassure myself that you don't have to have everything figured out, that you don't have to measure your worth by your productivity and to just trust your voice sooner and not be afraid to speak it. I think those things did not allow myself.

[00:42:21] I got married at 26 and had a kid right away and I'm very grateful for that, but I don't think the maturity of some of the stuff came through till after and I really confused a lot of being needed with being valued in life and different people in my life and that really set me up for failure just as like a giver and someone who always wants to be available for other people. So I'd say those things. If I go back to like middle school when I was like in the prime of I felt like getting bullied all the time, I would just tell myself to keep on trucking along and not letting

[00:42:50] the stuff that was happening create these anxiety, these anxiety attacks and these kind of cycles and just try to pull myself out of that in a different capacity. See? That was beautiful. It was beautiful. Second question is what is the hardest lesson you've had to learn so far? Oh man. Let's see. I would say it's actually unlearning. Unlearning the idea of perfection and being easily available

[00:43:19] and patient specifically through motherhood I'd say because I really had to learn that loving your kids can deeply coexist with being anxious, having depression, being exhausted, needing to ask for help and that doesn't mean you're failing. So I'd say unlearning that idea. That concept. Thanks. Thank you so much. Yeah. All right. So now I guess my hard questions. I'm calling them easy. I'm literally putting under here. Yeah, girl, don't sweat with us.

[00:43:48] Listen, we are so easy. She has the fun ones, but they're surprisingly hard to answer. Surprisingly hard. So if your anxiety had a theme song, what is it and why? All right. This is going to be really tough. I feel like I'm going to be beating around the bush with this. I can offer you a... Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Oh, no, you go. Because I don't know. I was going to say, I can offer you a side door because I do struggle with this question too. But if it doesn't have a song,

[00:44:18] does it have a sound? Maybe there's a sound that causes the anxiety or, you know. I don't know. I twisted a little bit and can I do my anxiety theme song now from the other side of it where I feel like I have more management of it? Yes. Yes. Yeah. So I'm a country girl through on... I do have... I am somewhat faithful. So I think for me, it's any Carrie Underwood song, frankly, she... Her voice is just lovely. But Jesus takes the wheel. And I think a little bit of it is because...

[00:44:47] And this is in the last year I really learned to not try to control everything. And so kind of allowing myself to release some of that fear through whatever it may be, whether it's working out, whether it's communication with other people, whether it's my faith, whatever it may be. So I feel like that song kind of aligns to that pretty well. I like that. That's kind of a different twist on just like an anxiety theme song. I don't know. I like it though. I like that. I'll add to that. So my anxiety theme song is the end of the world as we know it.

[00:45:18] And so when I was presenting last week... That was what you were hearing? Yeah. Because technology, everything that could have gone wrong went wrong. So I ended up having to close my... Got a little bit in my head. That song was going in my head. And I just had a super intentional talk. But like, that was my anxiety speaking. I told her, it happened four years earlier. I wouldn't just walk off the stage. But like, that was resilience and being able to pivot at the moment.

[00:45:48] Awesome. You should be proud of that too. So my next one is, what's your favorite word? My favorite word... I mean, lately, I feel like it's and. I know that sounds silly, but that's been such a pivotal word for me in life in the last year. And so many concepts, like silly things to like deep... Being able to feel two things. So that means a really special one. I like that. And what's your least favorite word? All right.

[00:46:18] I have two for this too. My least favorite word, I know that's probably against the rule of the question, but I have like a deep, like thoughtful one. And then I'd have a non-serious one. So non-serious, 100% is moist. I could throw up if I say it again, I'm not going to. Even if it's in the context, not my... And like thoughtful, I think it's the word should. And again, I think that this comes through motherhood and like my experience. It just honestly is turning these expectations into an obligation when it doesn't need to be. Yeah. Should. Yeah. Not a fan. I love it. This has been such a great interview

[00:46:48] because I feel like I got to interview both of you. Wow. And that was like me turning the tables a little bit. I know. How dare you? No, just kidding. How dare I? Emily, how can our listeners find out more about you? Absolutely. So I, my book, I have a website, mamasnotanoptopus.com. Nice and clever. So I have my book and more about myself there. I'm also on Instagram with my book and would love to hear from you all. Hey, thank you. Thank you, both for entertaining me today because like,

[00:47:17] I very rarely like ask as many questions as I did today. But you guys, I'm really proud of both of you and the fact that you guys show up for not only yourselves every day, but you show up for your kids and your family and the rest of the family. So kudos to both of you and kudos to all the moms out there that are struggling day in and day out. I'm telling you, I read Emily's book. I love it. I'm going to buy a bunch of copies of it and so all my mom friends, y'all are getting a book. Woo!

[00:47:46] So sweet. And thank you both for having me. This has been awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, y'all. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I'm G-Rex. And I'm Dirty Skittles. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. We'd love to listen to your feedback. We can't do this without you guys. It's okay to be not okay.

[00:48:16] Just make sure you're talking to someone.