The Power of Love and Faith: Karen’s Mental Health Awakening

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[00:00:28] Hey there, listeners. Welcome to Shit That Goes On In Our Heads, the podcast where we normalize conversations around mental health.

[00:00:43] That's right. I'm Dirty Skittles and alongside my amazing co-host, U-Rex, we are here to share stories and tips from our incredible guests.

[00:00:51] Each episode, we deep dive into struggles and triumphs of mental health, offering practical advice and heartfelt support.

[00:00:58] Because no one should feel alone in their journey. Join us as we break the stigma and build a community of understanding and compassion.

[00:01:05] Tune in and let's start talking about the shit that goes on in our heads.

[00:01:13] Three, two, one. Welcome back to another episode of Shit That Goes On In Our Heads.

[00:01:18] Today, I have the infamous Dirty Skittles and our guest, Karen. Welcome, Karen. Thank you so much for being here today.

[00:01:25] Welcome.

[00:01:25] Thank you. Thank you so much for the invitation.

[00:01:28] Yeah, I'm excited to get a second to chat with you.

[00:01:32] Where are you located? Just out of curiosity.

[00:01:34] I'm in New York. I'm within the five-year-old New York City and I am a block from the Atlantic Ocean, so people usually find that rather surprising.

[00:01:43] Wow, that is pretty cool. Is it Philly, where you're at?

[00:01:46] Yes. This is Rockaway Beach, New York, and we're four blocks wide and we have a huge bay on the north side and the Atlantic Ocean on the south side.

[00:01:54] So you could imagine with a little bit of wind, the summers are awesome and probably never really get above the mid to high 80s.

[00:02:03] And the winters can be rather brutal.

[00:02:06] Okay.

[00:02:07] And like painfully chilly at times.

[00:02:11] Nice. I'm only asking because I'm freezing, but I think it's like, I don't know, maybe 65 degrees.

[00:02:16] So there's like nothing too cold about it. It's not going to snow or anything.

[00:02:21] It's 49 here.

[00:02:24] Where are you guys located?

[00:02:26] I'm in Georgia.

[00:02:28] Oh, okay.

[00:02:29] Whatever. I'm in Georgia.

[00:02:31] I'm in upstate New York, just south of Syracuse by about 40 miles.

[00:02:36] So it gets cold here too.

[00:02:38] Snow belt weather.

[00:02:40] Snow belt.

[00:02:40] Yeah.

[00:02:42] Man.

[00:02:43] Okay, so let's jump into it.

[00:02:44] I'm very curious to hear about your journey.

[00:02:47] And I don't know, what are you comfortable sharing about what you've gone through with your daughter?

[00:02:51] How to set the stage.

[00:02:53] So I was married to a high conflict individual who had some issues.

[00:02:59] And my kids were four and six when I told them that I had decided to divorce.

[00:03:04] And then it took us three and a half years to go through a pretty brutal divorce journey.

[00:03:10] So by the time we emerged, let's say my four-year-old was between seven and eight.

[00:03:17] And then we began to share 50-50 custody.

[00:03:21] And dad loved them like no tomorrow.

[00:03:24] But he really struggled in relationships, still does.

[00:03:28] And so anger management, black and white thinking, very bipolar-like in terms of swinging from you're the most amazing to you're the worst.

[00:03:41] And so the children grew up with this.

[00:03:43] And so that's kind of just a little backstory.

[00:03:45] My daughter was a straight-A student.

[00:03:48] She dove into school in order to almost hide from the conflict in the household, whereas my son was more of the walking raw nerve.

[00:03:57] But when she hit mid-high school, a lot of issues started coming up for her.

[00:04:04] And so first she had social anxiety, and then she was diagnosed with depression.

[00:04:10] And then she went off to college, and she got a huge scholarship to a private art college.

[00:04:16] But she was only 17, surrounded by very uber-wealthy people.

[00:04:20] And I had been her rock, as a mental health expert explained to me.

[00:04:26] And so she started going off the rails.

[00:04:28] And then she was diagnosed with bipolar.

[00:04:30] And then she was diagnosed with borderline personality.

[00:04:32] And before you knew it, they had her on a dozen or more than a half a dozen meds.

[00:04:39] And she was doing street drugs.

[00:04:41] And she was just, she was a hot mess.

[00:04:46] And she got into trouble.

[00:04:48] She got suspended.

[00:04:49] She got arrested.

[00:04:52] And she had to come home.

[00:04:54] And she was devastated and broken.

[00:04:57] And that whole thing began about five years of her self-medicating in bad ways.

[00:05:05] Then going back on meds.

[00:05:07] She had eating issues.

[00:05:09] So she was bone thin and dysregulated.

[00:05:13] And she spent five years trying to leave this earth.

[00:05:18] It was just too hard for her.

[00:05:19] And so time and again, she would often take her prescription meds and just swallow a bottle.

[00:05:26] Wow.

[00:05:28] Wow.

[00:05:30] How difficult was it for you to prepare to have her come back home?

[00:05:34] Because I would imagine while she was away, were you aware of the challenges she was having along that way?

[00:05:40] Yeah, I would say that the magic in the midst of the tragic was that when I emerged from my divorce, I quickly got into life coaching school.

[00:05:50] And so I have always worked on myself.

[00:05:53] And I used to say to her when she was a kid, I know you love me so much, but when you become a teenager, you're going to hate me.

[00:05:59] And she was like, never mom, that's never going to happen.

[00:06:03] And it never happened.

[00:06:04] And so it was very important for me to be a safe space for my children because their other household wasn't.

[00:06:14] And so I learned a lot about how the safe parent gets beat up emotionally by the kids.

[00:06:20] And I was willing to take on that position.

[00:06:23] So when she was even away at college and she didn't tell me everything for a period of time, but we talked enough and I knew enough.

[00:06:34] And I had rented the room that she lived in because I was a single mom trying to make ends meet.

[00:06:41] And so I let the young woman know that she had to leave.

[00:06:44] And I tried to set my daughter up for success as best I could, but she was one unhappy puppy.

[00:06:53] Yeah.

[00:06:55] So, go ahead.

[00:06:56] I was just going to say that had to be hard to just watch that happening as you were trying to be that rock for her too.

[00:07:05] Yeah.

[00:07:06] I think for me, I believe that I was created with a lot of resilience and, you know, I coach people going through high conflict divorce.

[00:07:15] So my nine to five is very heavy.

[00:07:17] And then I have, when it's not nine to five, I have this heavy crisis to deal with.

[00:07:23] And so I knew that I just had to really shore myself up.

[00:07:28] I had to build a support team to help me so that I could help her.

[00:07:33] And yeah, I'm a Christian and I got reborn in 2009.

[00:07:38] And I have an incredibly healthy community of girlfriends who prayed for us, who supported us, who showed up.

[00:07:49] And that helped me be my best for her.

[00:07:54] Got it.

[00:07:55] So you're right in the room.

[00:07:57] She comes home.

[00:07:58] Was there an immediate shock to your system?

[00:08:01] Like, how do I help her?

[00:08:05] Well, you know, there's a lot of, in the beginning, there was a lot of adjusting for both of us.

[00:08:10] So one of the things was that Dominique would, she would be up all night and I get up at 5.30, 6 o'clock in the morning.

[00:08:19] And so, and she, the gift was that she had taken a music class.

[00:08:26] She went for art, for fine art.

[00:08:29] She's a phenomenal painter and illustrator, but she started taking a music class.

[00:08:34] So she came home and she started rapping.

[00:08:36] And she would write and rap all night long.

[00:08:41] And as I was waking up, she was getting ready to go to bed.

[00:08:44] And so we created a space for that.

[00:08:48] And we would go out to the local coffee shop and she could drink a cup of coffee and go to sleep.

[00:08:53] I was drinking a cup of coffee to start my day.

[00:08:55] And she would share her song of the night or her video of the night.

[00:09:00] And we would have this time together.

[00:09:03] So I stopped judging or criticizing or thinking what should be.

[00:09:09] And I just trusted that whatever this girl needs to go through, she's going to go through.

[00:09:15] And I am going to bite my tongue until it's bloody and just show up the best I can for her.

[00:09:22] Wow.

[00:09:23] Wow.

[00:09:24] Wow.

[00:09:24] I immediately.

[00:09:25] So I'm very much in awe of what you just said, because as a mom and I'm admittedly, I know I can be a helicopter mom.

[00:09:35] I'm fully aware and I try my hardest not to, but he's seven.

[00:09:39] So I'm immediately in awe of what you said, because I don't know how I would behave in that way.

[00:09:46] I feel like I probably would tend to want to just fix everything.

[00:09:50] And I say that, you know, as much as you can, right?

[00:09:54] Like I'm thinking I'm going to be able to fix it.

[00:09:55] Let me help you.

[00:09:56] Let me do this.

[00:09:57] And like, but you just truly, it sounds like you truly gave her a safe space to express herself.

[00:10:04] And I, it's going to be very hard to do without tears.

[00:10:09] I, I trusted with every ounce of my being that the God, the heavenly father that helped me through my hardest times was going to help her.

[00:10:18] And that if I interceded, like other than loving and supporting and praying for that, what do I know?

[00:10:27] I don't know your journey.

[00:10:28] I don't know.

[00:10:29] I certainly didn't know her mind.

[00:10:31] One morning we got coffee and, you know, I would often try and coach her and she let loose.

[00:10:39] And we were sitting in this park and she goes, you know, something about control your thoughts, shift your thoughts, this kind of thing.

[00:10:45] And she, for like five minutes, spoke what was going on in her mind.

[00:10:52] This mean and hateful inner critic who then became this, you know, this big stand for her.

[00:11:01] And you suck and you're disgusting.

[00:11:03] You can't do a freaking thing.

[00:11:05] And oh my God, you're so amazing.

[00:11:06] And she went on and on in this monologue explaining to me what happened between her ears.

[00:11:13] And I just sat there crying.

[00:11:15] And I was like, I am so sorry.

[00:11:17] And I wish, oh my God, do I wish I could take this from you?

[00:11:21] I wish I could just take it and have it in my head.

[00:11:23] And so I had to trust and believe that she was going to find her way.

[00:11:29] And that the best thing that I could do is be the loving support.

[00:11:33] I didn't know what to do.

[00:11:35] Yeah.

[00:11:37] This might be an odd question.

[00:11:39] Was she able in her current state or whatever she was going through, was she able to know what she needed from you?

[00:11:47] Like, did she ever verbally tell you, I just need you to do X, Y, or Z?

[00:11:53] Yeah.

[00:11:53] I mean, she was, I taught her to have a strong voice and, you know, I lost mine in my marriage.

[00:12:00] So I was like, just say it.

[00:12:01] It doesn't matter what the reaction is.

[00:12:03] And she's taken that to heart for all of these years.

[00:12:05] So she would let me know.

[00:12:06] She would let me know when to back the F up, you know, and I was far from perfect.

[00:12:11] And, but what I knew was that she would come to me in her most tender moments and her most vulnerable moments.

[00:12:20] And so I knew I was doing something right because she felt safe to come to me.

[00:12:26] And I will tell you, I know a lot of people with teenagers and young adults,

[00:12:31] and they don't know what's going on in their children's lives because they haven't been a safe space.

[00:12:36] In fact, I was a safe space for many of my kids' friends who said, I can't talk to my parents.

[00:12:42] And so I just knew that oftentimes it was TMI.

[00:12:47] I was like, you guys don't have to tell me everything, you know, but I knew.

[00:12:52] And as hard as the information was, for me, it would have been so much harder to be in the dark.

[00:13:09] Where did you learn to be a safe space?

[00:13:13] Like, where does that come from for you?

[00:13:16] My mom was not a safe space.

[00:13:19] And, and as a teenager, I sat myself down and I said, please remember,

[00:13:24] please, when you become an adult, remember how hard this time of my life is so that you don't repeat the mistakes.

[00:13:31] And that was my kind of only guardrail and then my faith.

[00:13:36] And I would just, I was on my knees praying for years and just sitting and listening and looking for a divine guidance,

[00:13:46] not a human guidance because everyone brings their baggage to the table,

[00:13:50] but a divine guidance that could help me do this.

[00:13:55] I don't know, right, good, better, something.

[00:13:59] Yeah.

[00:14:00] Yeah.

[00:14:00] I love that you were there for your daughter.

[00:14:04] You sound a lot like my mom.

[00:14:05] My mom was like the safe space for so many people, you know, and, you know, just in all the difficulties that, you know,

[00:14:13] I had was growing up and, you know, getting older.

[00:14:15] I love that you had that for your daughter.

[00:14:19] I love that she had that because, like you said, not every parent is out there protecting their kids or being their safe space.

[00:14:29] And I think it takes, I mean, for me going through a high conflict marriage, a high conflict divorce, I was in therapy.

[00:14:36] I went into a 12-step program.

[00:14:39] I have committed to spending the rest of my life becoming the best version of myself.

[00:14:45] And so a lot of people are like, could you stop talking about self-help?

[00:14:49] And that's just, that's my life.

[00:14:51] My life is how do I become the most healed and refined version of myself between now and when I meet my maker?

[00:15:00] And I think that helped tremendously.

[00:15:03] Yeah.

[00:15:04] I can relate to a part of what you're saying because I think for me growing up, I don't,

[00:15:11] when I think of safe spaces, I don't have any like memory of feeling that safe.

[00:15:17] And I think for me, the belief that I was meant to be here, like that there was something higher than me, right?

[00:15:25] Like I always, and I say this to my son whenever he asks about like belief systems and stuff like that.

[00:15:30] Like for me, and even before we had our son, my husband and I would talk about, you know, are we going to go to church?

[00:15:37] Are we going to ask him to take part in any religion or whatever?

[00:15:42] And for us, where we landed on was something that resonated with me, which was as long as he has something that he can believe in.

[00:15:49] And that's what got me through those tough times when I didn't have a safe space was just that hope and that belief that there was something more to my life than that hard time, right?

[00:16:02] So I think in your daughter's instance, she has you as her safe space and she's able to go to you and she's feeling, however, how do you take care of you during that?

[00:16:17] Yeah.

[00:16:18] How?

[00:16:18] Yeah.

[00:16:19] Yeah.

[00:16:20] So during that five-year period, I had my own coach.

[00:16:24] I have a team of coaches.

[00:16:26] I often would lean on one or the other of them depending on their strengths and what I needed.

[00:16:31] I have a circle of girlfriends in my church that are fabulous.

[00:16:37] I have a super close relationship with my pastors who I have gone to.

[00:16:43] Both of my children dominate many times over five years.

[00:16:46] My son twice tried to leave the earth.

[00:16:49] And so I just, I, and I think that at an early age or early in this, in their young adult years, teenage and young adult years, I felt like I had to come to terms with the fact that they weren't mine.

[00:17:06] You know, these are human beings that I had the honor to bring into the world and to raise.

[00:17:11] And I don't get to decide what happens with their lives or how long that they're here.

[00:17:18] And that was something that for years, every time I was faced with a suicide attempt, I would sit in prayer and try to, what's the word I want to use?

[00:17:31] Try to wrap my heart and brain around the fact that, you know, this may be more temporary than I think.

[00:17:38] I'm going to pray that it's not, but it may be.

[00:17:43] And, and so all of those little pieces were part of my journey.

[00:17:50] So what happens next with your daughter?

[00:17:52] She comes and she's staying in the room that you've rented out.

[00:17:57] Yeah.

[00:17:57] And, and then my mom was fairly deep in dementia and my sister had her down in Florida half the time and in New York about a half hour from me in the summers.

[00:18:10] And so I went down there and my younger sister was struggling with mom.

[00:18:16] And so I said to Dominique, now this is maybe a year and a half later.

[00:18:20] I said, I'm going to move down to Florida and, and help take care of mom.

[00:18:26] And she said, I'm not moving to Florida.

[00:18:28] And I just said, I know.

[00:18:31] And I knew it was time for her to move on.

[00:18:33] And I knew that it had gone from taking care of her to her being stuck and a little bit enabled.

[00:18:40] And, and so then she had met somebody and she had gone to school in Savannah.

[00:18:47] She liked Savannah.

[00:18:48] So she went back to Savannah and I moved down to Florida.

[00:18:52] And, and then the next year or year and a half, it was just all so hard.

[00:18:58] And what was a blissful relationship with this young man became abusive, verbally, emotionally, physically.

[00:19:05] She was doing, you know, street drugs again.

[00:19:09] And so it was a very on again, off again.

[00:19:12] I was about eight hours from her and I would drive up to support her.

[00:19:18] And she wouldn't, she was in a terrible place.

[00:19:21] I went for her birthday one year.

[00:19:23] We were just recently talking about this and I showed up and she was going out with her friends.

[00:19:27] And she was like, nasty.

[00:19:29] And what do you expect me to do?

[00:19:31] And it's my, after she invited me up for the weekend and I spent an entire weekend in a motel and saw her for like an hour.

[00:19:38] And a lot of, if I tell you, biting my tongue.

[00:19:42] And I just, she actually said it was after I left that she looked in the mirror and she was like,

[00:19:53] this person is my person and I have just treated her like such garbage.

[00:19:57] And she felt so shameful and she felt so bad.

[00:20:02] And that was a real turning point after that, that she just started honoring me a little bit more for the role that I was playing in her life.

[00:20:11] That was a really hard time.

[00:20:14] Yeah.

[00:20:14] I can't imagine.

[00:20:16] So that's very interesting because she was able to come to that on her own.

[00:20:21] I think that I have had numerous experiences where rather than scolding my children.

[00:20:30] And once my son had a room full of friends and I was away for the weekend and I came back and they had just been so disrespectful toward me and my house.

[00:20:39] And I think that we're so used to being yelled at.

[00:20:42] And I went up there and with tears in my eyes, I looked at this room full of boys and I said, I thought you cared more about me.

[00:20:49] And I am so deeply disappointed in the way you have treated my home and disrespected me.

[00:20:58] And I would like each of you to get up and leave right now because I don't want to say anything I'll regret.

[00:21:03] And they each came back to me over the next week saying it would have been so much easier if you just ripped into us.

[00:21:09] I was just thinking like they were just like their hearts were crushed by crushing me.

[00:21:15] And I feel like the same thing with my daughter that when, you know, when you come at everything with love, you have so much more of an impact.

[00:21:24] I was just thinking that.

[00:21:26] Yeah, me too.

[00:21:27] I'm like, man, it cuts deep.

[00:21:29] Like anytime I would get in trouble if my dad ever said I'm disappointed versus yelling at me.

[00:21:35] Oh, completely deep.

[00:21:37] Yes.

[00:21:38] It's so deep.

[00:21:39] That, yeah, that's the worst.

[00:21:41] Like just yell at me.

[00:21:43] Then I'm not going to feel so bad.

[00:21:45] And that's what I did at the end of that weekend.

[00:21:48] We had like an hour in her backyard and I just told her how much I loved her.

[00:21:53] And twice she asked me to come up to bring her back home with me.

[00:21:57] And I came up twice and then she was like, I'm not going with you.

[00:22:00] And I had to turn around and drive the eight hours and go home alone.

[00:22:04] And I just, I never let loose on her.

[00:22:08] I would get in the car.

[00:22:10] I would let loose.

[00:22:11] I had to get it out of my system.

[00:22:12] Like, are you effing kidding me?

[00:22:16] That was not for her ears.

[00:22:17] That was for my friends.

[00:22:19] That was for my coaches.

[00:22:20] That was for me to process, not to put on this young broken woman shame or guilt or any of that.

[00:22:29] And I will tell you, there are plenty of people in my life who like you are so unhealthy and codependent.

[00:22:35] And I would, I have to say, I'm pretty darn confident at this point in my life.

[00:22:40] And I was just like, but you are welcome to your opinion.

[00:22:44] And I don't receive that.

[00:22:45] I don't believe that.

[00:22:46] And I don't mind that you do.

[00:22:49] Go, go at it.

[00:22:51] I was thinking that I was going to ask you what your friends or whoever you were confiding those feelings to what they would say.

[00:22:58] But I want to note that if I could put myself in that position of like being at my absolute worst and needing somebody.

[00:23:07] Knowing that if I called and you would drive the eight hours would have made a world of difference versus not knowing who would show up.

[00:23:16] Yeah.

[00:23:16] You know, so I think there's something there into the method that you were taking versus, you know, what your friends or family would have said you should do.

[00:23:24] And I have to say that eight hours is like the longest eight hour.

[00:23:28] I can only imagine, especially coming back home.

[00:23:31] Are you just like raging out to like heavy metal music?

[00:23:35] What are we?

[00:23:36] What is playing in the car as you're trying?

[00:23:39] I probably had my Christian music.

[00:23:41] Right, right, right.

[00:23:41] That's what I needed more than anything in the moment.

[00:23:44] You're like, I need Jesus on this ride.

[00:23:45] Exactly.

[00:23:47] Please don't, please let me not get a ticket.

[00:23:50] Oh my God.

[00:23:52] Good Lord.

[00:23:53] So does she eventually move to Florida?

[00:23:55] Are you guys eventually back on the summer?

[00:23:57] At one point, I've learned so much about just mental health and what was going on in her head.

[00:24:05] And like she went through this period where she would believe she had a brain tumor.

[00:24:11] She would believe she had breast cancer.

[00:24:13] She would like, she would go into this whole thing.

[00:24:16] And I'm like as healthy as the day is long.

[00:24:19] I'm one of the healthiest people I know.

[00:24:20] And so that was actually something that I had a really hard time with.

[00:24:24] And I had to just keep reminding myself that I am not discussing this with a rational, healthy brain.

[00:24:33] And I could so easily shame her.

[00:24:36] And I like, are you freaking kidding me?

[00:24:38] So at one point, I mean, so many things happened.

[00:24:42] But for a while, she was homeless.

[00:24:43] I was paying for hotels.

[00:24:45] I was, I went to a part of Florida and tried to rent a place for her and her friend.

[00:24:50] But all these property managers and she had an eviction.

[00:24:54] And when you have an eviction, you can't be on anyone's lease and blah, blah, blah.

[00:24:58] So she was, I said, I am going to, I am going to get you housed.

[00:25:02] And then I failed.

[00:25:03] That was probably one of my hardest moments.

[00:25:07] And it was also the same week that my mom died.

[00:25:11] So I was there.

[00:25:12] I was trying to get her home.

[00:25:15] It wasn't going to happen.

[00:25:17] My mom died.

[00:25:18] My sisters were furious that my daughter, my anorexic, physically abused, disordered, out of her mind daughter couldn't pull her shit together and come and stand by my side and support me.

[00:25:33] And I was like, let's just not discuss that.

[00:25:36] And then she called me and she said, I need help.

[00:25:41] And I said, just come down.

[00:25:43] Just let me come and get you.

[00:25:45] And I think that's what happened.

[00:25:47] And her car blew up.

[00:25:48] And then she was like, I just, I am just, I'm at the end of my rope.

[00:25:52] And I went and I got her.

[00:25:54] And I had a little two-bedroom cottage.

[00:25:57] One bedroom was my office.

[00:25:59] One bedroom was my bedroom.

[00:26:00] And I had a pull-out couch in the living room.

[00:26:03] And she, every day, we would pull out the couch.

[00:26:05] And she, of course, was all bad behaviors.

[00:26:08] Smoking, vaping, smoking dope, doing drugs, angry, going out, staying out all night, the whole nine yards, being kind of...

[00:26:18] Disrespectful at times.

[00:26:20] And I sat on the couch and I prayed.

[00:26:22] And I prayed because I just didn't know how could I, how do I handle my clients, keep my business running, and be there for my daughter like I'm only human.

[00:26:32] And God just said to me, just be love.

[00:26:35] It was like the, it just was, it was the only thing I could hear was just be love.

[00:26:40] Just when you don't know what to do, be love.

[00:26:42] And so I was like, okay, I'll try that.

[00:26:45] And I did.

[00:26:46] I mean, my tongue was bloody more times than you could imagine.

[00:26:50] And I would clean up and I'd scoot her into my bedroom and I would make her food.

[00:26:54] And I would bite my tongue when she went and did her things.

[00:26:57] And little by little, she was interested in the book.

[00:26:59] What are you interested in?

[00:27:00] And I would, oh, you want to know about, you know, astrology?

[00:27:04] Great, we'll buy you astrology.

[00:27:05] Whatever you want.

[00:27:06] And little by little, she started reading the book.

[00:27:09] She told me she was going to give up the vape.

[00:27:11] She stopped smoking dope.

[00:27:13] And then she started eating and really enjoying my incredibly healthy food.

[00:27:18] And then one day she, she asked me if I would go, they had a ton of outdoor parks in Florida and exercise with her.

[00:27:26] She started exercising and I'm like, oh my God, this girl is in her body.

[00:27:30] So if you know, right, mental health, you're so in your, it's like your head without a body.

[00:27:35] When she started working out and actually feeling and enjoying her body and eating food and enjoying how the food felt in her body, it was this shift.

[00:27:46] And we would go exercise together and we would, you know, we would.

[00:27:49] And then she would bring me food.

[00:27:52] She would be in the kitchen videoing as she made healthy food and she'd be posting it.

[00:27:58] And then she'd come and I'd be in between sessions and she'd bring me like the most amazing avocado toast with meat toppings.

[00:28:05] And she started cooking with me and she just began to blossom into a really healthy version of herself.

[00:28:24] That sounds phenomenal, right?

[00:28:27] Like to come from what sounds very dark and desperate almost to sounds happy and fulfilled.

[00:28:36] Like where does she stand today?

[00:28:38] Like what is her current?

[00:28:39] So at the end of that was about five or six months and other things were going on.

[00:28:44] And after my mom died, my relationship with my sisters fell very much apart due to their judgment of my two children.

[00:28:52] And we were like this, we were really close as anything our whole lives.

[00:28:55] And so I had to leave.

[00:28:56] I was renting the house from my younger sister.

[00:28:59] My mom was gone.

[00:29:00] There was no reason for me to be there.

[00:29:01] And we all decided to move back to New York and Dominique.

[00:29:05] And this is where God comes in.

[00:29:07] So Dominique had an eviction.

[00:29:10] So nobody, you have seven years of not being rented to when you've got an eviction.

[00:29:15] And an old college friend of hers was looking for a subletter in Bedford Stuy, a really beautiful neighborhood, a gorgeous apartment.

[00:29:24] And she got it.

[00:29:26] And I just thought, I thought she'd be living with me for the next seven years, which I was not excited about.

[00:29:32] Because you wanted your space.

[00:29:33] No one to do, but not excited about.

[00:29:35] Yeah.

[00:29:35] And so she got a place in Brooklyn.

[00:29:38] And I moved back up to my childhood neighborhood, Rockaway Beach, where I am now.

[00:29:45] And she started living her life and making a living.

[00:29:50] And she was an exotic dancer, which is another thing a lot of parents and I went off the rails in the beginning.

[00:29:56] And then I thought, if this, she, what's it called?

[00:30:02] When you have an outer body experience, she dissociates.

[00:30:06] And so she said, but I use it to my advantage.

[00:30:09] And I use my alter ego.

[00:30:11] And I go and I actually feel, instead of anxious, really calm.

[00:30:16] And she's tall and thin and gorgeous.

[00:30:18] And she was dancing and making a really good living and really enjoying what she was doing.

[00:30:24] And so I decided, I'm going to celebrate you.

[00:30:27] This isn't forever, but it is your bridge back to something normal.

[00:30:32] And I am going to talk to you about all my concerns and then celebrate you.

[00:30:38] And then she left that.

[00:30:41] And now she's bartending.

[00:30:42] And she actually is in a super healthy relationship with a sweet guy.

[00:30:46] And she has her own one-bedroom apartment.

[00:30:48] And she told me, when she first met him, she goes, I would never.

[00:30:54] She said to me, he is just so amazing.

[00:30:57] I would never behave badly toward him.

[00:31:01] I love him too much.

[00:31:03] And I just, I waited a moment and I said, how much do you love me?

[00:31:08] And she goes, oh my God, I'm going to be mean to him.

[00:31:11] It was so perfect because I didn't have to say anything else.

[00:31:15] She's really been reaching out to a therapist or to me when they have relationship struggles and getting her head clear and going back.

[00:31:25] She's just amazing.

[00:31:28] She's like my miracle.

[00:31:29] Does she like have fear that she'll fall back into that dark space?

[00:31:36] Yeah.

[00:31:37] No, in fact, I guess about a year and a half ago, she called me and she goes,

[00:31:41] I am so anxious every time I catch a cold or God forbid COVID, right?

[00:31:46] She's like, I spent so many years trying to leave the earth.

[00:31:49] Now I want to be here and I get so darn anxious every time I get sick because I'm afraid I might not be.

[00:31:55] So it was almost like this interesting switch.

[00:31:58] And now she is talking about her future.

[00:32:01] She knows I have a brain that I have to work with.

[00:32:05] And it's not like everybody else's brain.

[00:32:07] But I think that my daughter has such a depth of emotional intelligence, such an awareness of herself, has worked so hard on managing herself.

[00:32:22] So her and this young man had a fight of whatever type.

[00:32:26] And she called me and told me what happened.

[00:32:28] And I said, what did you do?

[00:32:29] And she said, I pulled out my dialectical behavior workbook that you bought me.

[00:32:34] And I found an exercise so that I could regulate myself before I went back to talk to him.

[00:32:40] And I was like, oh my God.

[00:32:44] What can I say?

[00:32:45] Like, that's just so absolutely beautiful and amazing.

[00:32:49] I love that.

[00:32:50] So I have a question.

[00:32:52] Like, in the hard years, right?

[00:32:56] During that time, like, what did you do for yourself as far as like self-love and self-care?

[00:33:01] And then the next part of that question is, what do you do today for self-love and self-care?

[00:33:07] Yeah.

[00:33:08] I have, I am blessed with a very deep and healthy circle of friends.

[00:33:14] And I think my zone of genius is speaking to a stranger and they go really deep and really

[00:33:22] vulnerable really quickly.

[00:33:24] There's something about my presence that invites that in.

[00:33:28] I go really deep and really vulnerable with my circle.

[00:33:32] And so I actually, for a while, I hired a therapist when I felt like I was emotionally

[00:33:39] coming unhinged.

[00:33:40] I've hired coaches when I felt like I just, like a parenting coach, someone who understands

[00:33:47] neurodiversion.

[00:33:48] When I felt like I was in uncharted waters, I hold on to my solitude because of what I

[00:33:55] do all day long.

[00:33:57] And because of the struggles of my children, I spend a lot of time alone in a very peaceful

[00:34:04] place, just giving myself the quiet and the prayer time and the comfort that I need.

[00:34:12] And so it's an area I need to grow into.

[00:34:15] Like I want to vacation more.

[00:34:16] I want to play more.

[00:34:18] And I have a coach right now and she asked me something about my bucket list.

[00:34:24] And I said, I have been in crisis for so long that I'm finally now at a place and it just

[00:34:34] doesn't even occur to me to look there because it's so not part of my culture and my habit.

[00:34:41] And so my growth from this point forward is taking care of Karen, reentering romantic relationships,

[00:34:51] which I did not go near for the longest time because I had no bandwidth.

[00:34:57] I was building my business.

[00:34:58] I had these two humans whose other parent was really not available and I brought them into

[00:35:04] the world.

[00:35:05] It was my responsibility to help them through the hard times.

[00:35:08] And so when it comes to self-care for me, learning how to play more and relax more.

[00:35:16] And even with my children now who are both in a better place, I just recently said to them,

[00:35:22] I can't be the receptacle for your complaints and worry anymore.

[00:35:26] If there's something you can do, I will sit, I will listen, and we will coach through an

[00:35:32] action step.

[00:35:33] But if you just need to bitch and complain, I'm not your girl anymore.

[00:35:37] And that felt great.

[00:35:39] And they both received that with such grace and appreciation.

[00:35:46] That's good.

[00:35:47] Yeah.

[00:35:49] If you could, I mean, looking back on the journey you've just shared, and I'm sure there's other

[00:35:54] parts we didn't get to hear, but is there anything you would change about how you handled

[00:35:59] the situation or something you did?

[00:36:03] I mean, it's a really interesting question.

[00:36:05] I think that with everything I said, I carried a huge burden for them.

[00:36:17] And I remember going up in my church, you can go up for prayer at the end of the service.

[00:36:22] And I remember going up for prayer and one of the pastors saying to me, you know, do you

[00:36:27] trust your heavenly father?

[00:36:28] And I was like, with every ounce of my being, he's brought me through so much.

[00:36:31] And he was like, you know, they have the same heavenly father.

[00:36:36] And it was just such, it was the thing.

[00:36:39] It's like, you don't, you are not carrying this burden by yourself.

[00:36:42] Like you, you can ease up a little bit.

[00:36:45] And, and so I'm not a worrier, but I probably spent a lot of time carrying that burden that

[00:36:53] could have been lighter.

[00:36:55] I guess that's the only way I know how to say it.

[00:36:58] That makes sense.

[00:37:00] Yeah.

[00:37:00] So it's more of an internal change in terms of what I did externally.

[00:37:04] I think I would do it all almost exactly the same.

[00:37:08] Yeah.

[00:37:09] Gotcha.

[00:37:10] I have two, two of my favorite questions to ask.

[00:37:14] If you could go back to yourself in your younger years and give yourself a bit of advice,

[00:37:19] what would you say to yourself?

[00:37:21] And how old are you when you go back in time?

[00:37:25] I would go back to my 14 year old self.

[00:37:27] I was sexually abused from 14 to 16.

[00:37:31] My parents divorced.

[00:37:32] Me and my mom had a horrific relationship and I had no self-worth.

[00:37:41] I was a great athlete and a phenomenal student, but I had no self-worth.

[00:37:47] And, and I think I would say to my younger self, you have been created with such a gorgeous heart

[00:37:57] and, and a resilience and tenacity and love that you project outwards.

[00:38:07] But from this day forward, give it to yourself and trust and believe in yourself because you are all that and you're beautiful.

[00:38:20] And I think I went through my teens, my twenties, my thirties, every romantic relationship.

[00:38:28] I was the lucky one.

[00:38:30] I was very, I had no experience with self-love.

[00:38:34] And, and if I could turn back the clock, I would really want to inspire my younger self to trust and believe in herself more.

[00:38:43] What would you say, at least to date, has been the hardest lesson you've had to learn in your life?

[00:38:53] Gosh, I'm like, I've got all these tragedies like flying through my head.

[00:38:57] You know, very recently, and this has to do with my siblings and my mom passing.

[00:39:06] And I've realized that I have a lot more work to do in the area of forgiveness.

[00:39:12] And I don't hold a grudge.

[00:39:15] It's not the little things.

[00:39:16] I forgive the little things easily, but everyone's allowed to show up as themselves.

[00:39:23] And I would be so much better served not judging anyone else for who they are and the path that they are on, but rather choosing to set my boundaries and honor my needs, but honor them too.

[00:39:39] No matter how sloppy, no matter how hostile, no matter how, whatever judgment I have.

[00:39:46] So I would say that my big lesson is to continue to let go of judgment, enter curiosity, and enter love and compassion with every human being that I have the honor of crossing paths with.

[00:40:05] I love that.

[00:40:06] So I actually have another question.

[00:40:09] What is your favorite word?

[00:40:13] Faith.

[00:40:16] Faith is the foundation upon which I live my life.

[00:40:20] And what's your least favorite word?

[00:40:24] What is my least favorite word?

[00:40:26] I don't know.

[00:40:28] Is it wasps?

[00:40:29] Because that's my least favorite word.

[00:40:32] Wasps.

[00:40:33] What's coming to mind, and I'm not saying it, so I'll just say it as you're wrong.

[00:40:38] Hmm.

[00:40:39] I think you're wrong is just something that I try to stay as far away from as possible.

[00:40:45] I love that.

[00:40:47] And so I know that you have a, you have your own podcast.

[00:40:52] And so how can we promote your podcast?

[00:40:57] Thank you so much for asking.

[00:40:59] I am a high conflict divorce coach and strategist, and my podcast is Journey Beyond Divorce.

[00:41:06] And we've got about 400 episodes.

[00:41:08] And we help men and women navigate the emotional turmoil and the complex practical aspects of legal financial co-parenting.

[00:41:20] And I know it's been a gift to thousands.

[00:41:25] And so anything that I can do to extend the reach of that, I think, can help more people.

[00:41:32] So if there's something that you can do on that front, that would be deeply appreciated.

[00:41:39] Of course.

[00:41:40] Our thousands of listeners will for sure hear this conversation.

[00:41:45] And thank you so much for being so vulnerable and telling us your journey, giving us a little bit to think about.

[00:41:52] Yeah.

[00:41:54] I just want to thank you for, you guys have such an amazing show.

[00:41:59] And being on the interviewing side, I don't get to do this too often.

[00:42:03] And this has been cathartic for me.

[00:42:06] And this is going to be a quiet, peaceful day for the rest of the day.

[00:42:12] As all of these memories percolate around, I'll probably give my daughter a call too.

[00:42:17] Thank you so much for the invitation to come on and share.

[00:42:21] And if one person is inspired by my story, and anyone could reach out to me and talk to me.

[00:42:28] If they feel so called, it doesn't have to have anything to do with divorce.

[00:42:34] But if my story with my daughter touches someone and a conversation could help them, it would be my honor to have that conversation.

[00:42:43] Thank you.

[00:42:44] Oh my God.

[00:42:44] Love that so much.

[00:42:46] Hi, all.

[00:42:47] Thank you so much for listening to this episode.

[00:42:49] I'm G-Rex.

[00:42:50] And I'm Dirty Skittles.

[00:42:52] Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review this podcast.

[00:42:55] We'd love to listen to your feedback.

[00:42:57] We can't do this without you guys.

[00:43:00] It's okay to be not okay.

[00:43:02] Just make sure you're talking to someone.

[00:43:04] We'll see you next time.