Stefani Gets Real About Dog Phobias, Kids, and Mental Health Wins

[00:00:06] Hey there, listeners. Welcome to Sht That Goes On In Our Heads, the podcast where we normalize conversations around mental health. That's right. I'm Dirty Skittles and alongside my amazing co-host, G-Rex, we are here to share stories and tips from our incredible guests. Each episode, we deep dive into struggles and triumphs of mental health, offering practical advice and heartfelt support. Because no one should feel alone in their journey. Join us as we break the stigma

[00:00:32] and build a community of understanding and compassion. Tune in and let's start talking about the Sht That Goes On In Our Heads. Three, two, one. Welcome back to another episode of Sht That Goes On In Our Heads. I'm here with my amazing co-host, Dirty Skittles, and today we have an awesome guest, Stephanie. Welcome, Stephanie. So happy to have you here. Thank you. I'm really

[00:00:59] excited to be here and to hopefully spread the word a little bit. I love this. I'm so excited to meet you and hear your story. Okay. Where would you like to start? Well, I know we're all dog lovers. So many years ago, and I grew up with a lot of animals, not just dogs. And many years ago when I

[00:01:24] had my own daughter, when she was about age five, she out of the blue announced she was afraid of dogs and she wasn't going over to Jennifer's house for a play date. And I was flabbergasted and stressed because I didn't know whether to tell Jennifer's mother why she didn't want to come over. I mean, it really was very stressful. I didn't know anything about it. There were no resources.

[00:01:51] And so in fact, over the years, my methods, getting some information and being able, thankfully, to help many people of all ages, I wrote two books that I wish I had way back then. A question. Was there like a root cause for that? Like where that fear came from for her? That is a really good question. So what I have found is that there's basically four ways

[00:02:18] that this particular fear can develop. It's a phobia. It's listed in the DSM. I think it's five. It's a real, it's a real thing. And there's four ways it develops. One is to your point, dirty skittles, something bad happens to you. You see something bad happen to someone else or you hear about something. Or lots of times if a parent figure is afraid of dogs,

[00:02:45] they give very subtle cues, kid picks up on them and becomes afraid. The fourth way is what was with my daughter and actually seems to be the most common. It's just a temperament thing. These people seem to be cautious, creative, bright. They don't understand dogs. And we're afraid of things we don't understand. So that seems to be the most common thing. And that's how it was with her.

[00:03:13] Yeah. That makes sense. I remember, and I think we've chatted about this on other episodes, but I have phobias. And I, before my son was even born, I remember saying to myself, like, if I ever have a child, I want to be really careful to not influence their fear in things. Because for example, I'm afraid of whales. There's no reason for it other than a National

[00:03:40] Geographic magazine I saw when I was little freaked me out. Okay. So you saw something. Correct. But I don't want him to be afraid of whales because my childhood seeing this magazine. So yeah, it's good that we're on the right path then. Because I'm like, I don't want to influence his fears. That's right. That's right. And I don't like to fly. And part of it is because I don't know how that thing stays up in the air. So, but I do, I manage. I get a little help from my friends, but

[00:04:11] I do get on the plane. And I'm afraid of heights. Oh, okay. But for two reasons. One, when I was a kid, I fell off a roof. By my own doing, nobody pushed me off. And two, like, if I can't see the horizon, it's me out a little bit. So I, but I've now kind of overcome two of those. One, my wife and I were in Hawaii and did a doors off helicopter tour. Oh my God.

[00:04:39] I thought I was going to die the entire time. Good for you. But did that. I was still super shaky when I got off the plane. And then here in upstate New York, she had me like climb up really high on a ladder to hand her something. And like, I had death grip on that ladder. I was like, I am going to die. And my little tiny hands couldn't quite grip around the legs on the ladder. But I did it. You faced your fear.

[00:05:07] I was like, now I need some help from my friends. So then I promptly went back inside and took a gummy and we were good. Do you think it like helped you for future times you have to be up high? No pun intended. I think so. But I think I'm still will approach it like very cautiously. And that's how I am with

[00:05:32] dogs. I'm very cautious when I approach a new animal because I've had those experiences in my lifetime where I've seen somebody get attacked by a dog. I've seen really poorly treated animals and had felt bad for them, but I was also a little standoffish. But just take a couple of deep breaths and just try and get myself calm because if you're calm around the animal, it also calms the

[00:05:58] animal. Yes, they very much read your body language, your tension level. And I'm also cautious around dogs. And that's why when I work with people, I try to teach them or help them learn to read dog. So when they see a dog, they know, okay, this dog's tail is up and it's wagging and the ears are alert. And this is a

[00:06:25] safe dog to interact with. Of course, you always ask the person as opposed to a dog that's hunched over with the whale eye and the tail in between its legs. That's a dog you want to stay away from. Also for a lot of the kids I work with, some of the dogs are safe to be with. They're not going to get bit, but these can be very jumpy dogs and that can feel unpredictable and scary.

[00:06:50] So also just as a PSA announcement, most dog bites can be prevented. And you just have to know the warning signs, respect the dog. The majority of dog bites actually happens with boys between ages five and nine. Anybody want to guess why?

[00:07:16] If I had a guess, it's because if I'm using my son, so my son is seven and we are constantly having to teach him to read the signs. So he'll want to like hug them or get right in their face. And the dogs are not always wanting that attention. And so if they're growling or snipping, I'm like, dude, get away from the dog.

[00:07:38] Yeah. Yeah. I don't think he quite gets it yet. Like how to read those signs. So we're very vigilant. Yeah. Good for you. Good for you. You're preventing something for sure. Yeah. Yeah. So why is it that they... Exactly that in general, and this is a stereotype and I hope you don't get hate mail for it,

[00:07:59] but in general, boys tend to play rougher and get a little wild and aren't necessarily taking the time to check in. Is this dog okay with this? And so the dog often feels like they have no choice. They've tried all the other stress signals and so it ends up with a bite. Yeah. Do you primarily work with children being more comfortable with dogs or is it adults as well?

[00:08:27] It's mostly children, but I have worked with a number of adults. It's fascinating because the adults in general, the common theme is that they feel the dog is over-interested in them. When, yeah, is the dog noticing me? Is the dog this? And most dogs, and I try to help people be boring around dogs. If you're boring, most dogs are going to find someone else to interact with.

[00:08:57] But the adults that come to me, many feel desperate and are really motivated. So I'm in New York. I'm three hours from Philly and I'm currently working with a woman who is driving from Philadelphia to face her fear. She's turning 50 and this is on her bucket list. Good for her. Yeah. And almost every adult says to me, I wish my parents had taken this seriously years ago and help me.

[00:09:28] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would, right? If we had one incident where we were on a family vacation in California and we had pulled over somewhere and we were eating lunch and it was a very dog friendly outdoor environment. And the owner's dog got into it with a visitor's dog. And my son saw he was younger at

[00:09:54] this point. And when he saw it, of course, fear. And then he was really sad because he didn't know if the dog got hurt. And I remember in that moment thinking to myself like, shit, I couldn't control that happening. And I want, I don't want him to be afraid of that. And I didn't really want him to see two dogs fighting, but he did. And the way we approach it was to just talk through it. And yeah,

[00:10:19] sometimes we're not going to get along and let's go make sure everybody's okay. And on our way out, he looked at the little dog and the dog was totally fine. And he just wanted to pet the dog. And I'm so sorry that happened. He was very gentle and tender or whatever, but I'm like, oh, thank God, like that, you know, it, nothing crazy happened, but it was scary. You bring up something really important, which is lots of times there's a protective layer from this

[00:10:48] fear. If you've had a lot of positive experiences leading up to a negative one, which sounds like maybe that was how it was for your son and also your attitude and helping him. So like my sister, we grew up with a ton of animals and my sister, I just want to give her a shout out. She's the one who really encouraged me to do the book and do this work. And she helped me

[00:11:15] with her dog, helped my daughter, Becky, get over her fear. Where was I going with the, oh, but when she was a little girl and this was my mother's fault for negligent parenting, which hello, now I'm a social worker. My sister pulled the dog's tail while the dog was eating and she got bit.

[00:11:38] And that was totally the human's fault, my, my mother's fault, but it didn't faze her because she'd had all these under other wonderful experiences with animals. That's good. That's really good. So you had mentioned earlier on, it was your daughter,

[00:12:05] right? Who had a fear of animals. How did you help her work? Just dogs. Of dogs? Yeah. So she was five and we had a vacation plan to visit my sister who was in California and she had a wonderful dog, same breed as my dog now named Casey. And he was well behaved. And

[00:12:30] intuitively we kind of gave Becky control. We taught, we said, ask Casey to sit because when we're afraid feels out of control. So if he has a plan and can feel more in control and then little by little, she got closer and closer to the dog and more and more interactions. And after that, we slowly

[00:12:55] introduced her to other dogs. My mother had a dog and it definitely went away. Yeah. I think that's, you like hit it for me because the things that I'm afraid of are usually because I'm not in control of them. Like I relate to on the fear of flying, although not so much that I don't know why it's in the air. It's just that I can't control it. So if something bad happens when I'm in the air, what am I going to do? Yeah, exactly. But even with that, I think my husband and I both

[00:13:23] share that fear and my husband's afraid of heights like you, G-Rex. So we still try to make the best effort to not have our son see that fear from us because we don't want him to then be afraid to fly or good for you. Yeah. Climb, but it is totally about control for me. I have zero control and it freaks me out. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I have to say though, like I still have a very rational fear

[00:13:49] of dogs as, and I found it more as I've gotten older because like for me, I, when I meet like a very anxious dog, right? Like an ankle humper. Is that a chihuahua? I don't know. Just call it out by name. Okay. Chihuahua, ankle humper, half rat, half piranha, whatever you want to call them. Okay. But like they scare me, right? Because I, number one, I have a, I'm very allergic to cats and dogs.

[00:14:18] So number one, I don't want to get scratched or anything because that's a whole series of having to take a bunch of Benadryl just to feel better. And dirty skills knows. It was all about Benadryl. But I, and I also, because I sometimes don't know how to control the situation. So, so a lot of times we'll just, just remove myself from the situation. If we're at a friend's house or whatever, I will

[00:14:44] physically like walk out of the room because I can feel my chest tightening and my, my, I'm like trembling, right? And I don't like to, I don't like having that feeling. And I don't know if it's because of my age or because of like a past experience I've had, but I know it's, and to some people it's very irrational, but for me, I am like rationalized. I'm like, deuces, I'm out

[00:15:12] because I like to feel like control of what's going on in my body. And like you guys with flying, that is for me, it's like when I lose control of the situation, that's when I get scared. Yeah. I have to say though, G-Rex, I mean, I think your fear is based in reality because you could get physically pretty sick if something happens. And I would just try to suggest to help you have a plan.

[00:15:41] If you know, you're going somewhere and there's an ankle humper, wear high boots or shake your leg to get it off. I mean, part of the problem here is that humans don't always help, you know, the owners, I don't know if we can say owners anymore that, oh, but my dog is so cute. Don't worry. Yada.

[00:16:03] Yada, that's just disrespectful. Get your dog off my leg. Yeah, exactly. We have two dogs that are pretty high energy, I would say. One more so than the other, but it's something that I always try to be mindful of if we're having company over, even if they've been to our house a hundred times, right? Like I don't want our dogs jumping all over them and I haven't been able to train them

[00:16:31] properly to not do that. That's okay. So we, we will take measures to make sure that they're not jumping all over. But that's fantastic. I do the same thing. I have a very sweet dog. She's high energy. She will get very excited if you walk into my house. I have a big note on my door. Do not ring the bell or knock on the door. But what I do now, and I wish I had thought of this before my first book, it's in the

[00:17:00] second book. If you meet a dog outside their home on a leash, the dog is much less excitable when you go back in the house. Also for the kids I work with or the people I work with, it gives them a couple of minutes to turn their fight or flight off or down. That's a good idea. Just kind of, I don't know, it's worked very well. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to have to try that. That's actually a really good

[00:17:30] idea. Cause I think that is, yeah. As soon as the door is opening and somebody's coming inside, they're like, Oh, they're freaking out. They're ready to. Yeah. And when I can't do that, I hold her with a leash and I have her in a sit giving her treats while the people walk in. But you know, you are respectful and considerate. And a lot of people are not, which increases the fear. And the thing is, you're afraid of whales. You're afraid of heights. You can live your life, not seeing a

[00:18:00] whale or climbing a ladder. You can. You can't live your life if you want to leave your home. Right. Right. Yeah. I, that's true. That's true. Like I can avoid certain fears, but yeah, other ones, I think we do need to be more respectful of people and understanding their fear. And cause not everybody I was thinking of, I had a family member who at the time had a pit bull

[00:18:26] and I love dogs, but I think what happened was the dogs got out of the house. There was an incident and everybody was running after the dogs to try to get them back. And it was just chaos. And I remember kind of being like the more cautious one to go outside. Like I was really kind of scared of what I was going to encounter, but I remember going out and this reminds me of when you said learning to

[00:18:51] speak dog and seeing this dog running towards me as the family is chasing after them. And I think my initial instinct was like, Oh shit, let's run. Let's take cover. But instead I remember thinking like, okay, if I run, it's not going to help. And I remember like kind of kneeling down and being like, come here puppy. And like my body inside is freaking out, but I'm like, come here puppy. And sure enough, we got them. And I'm like, Holy shit. Thank God that went. Okay.

[00:19:20] Because this is giant pit bull just running at me. Yeah. But instinctively, I guess you really knew what to do and you also, you also understand dogs. So the other thing I, and we practice this with the people that we work with. If you never ever run because dogs are hardwired to chase things that move. Yeah. Think tennis balls, squirrels. So even though it's scary as anything, you need to stand still.

[00:19:50] I actually advise turning sideways and crossing your arms. And most people say, but then I can't see the dog. I said, you could peek, but in dog language, when dogs turn sideways, they're telling you keep moving. I'm not interested. So we practice that in case there's a loose dog or even walking on a sidewalk. If you feel uncomfortable and the dog is leashed even, or just so you know this, if there

[00:20:19] is an angry and aggressive dog, you, they call it be a rock, you get down and you cover your head and you pray that the dog moves on, but do not run. You were right. I'm like, I am not running, but I wanted to get everything in your bodies. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah. And by the way, I had, it wasn't an out of body experience, but I had an experience a couple of months ago that really helped me understand the people that I work with there. I was walking with

[00:20:49] a friend. We both had our dogs on a leash and maybe, I don't know. I'm not less than a football field away. There was a loose dog and it was a, like a German shepherd dog, which I don't really have a problem with those dogs, but something triggers me police dog. And I really, I could feel my body panic and my friend got nervous and we thought, okay, what are we going to do? And we talked it

[00:21:15] through and whatever. But I thought, I think the universe just did that so that I can remember that this is how my clients feel was the same thing when I had a puppy and I thought I was going to lose my mind. And I said, this is the universe. And cause I also work with children sending me this puppy to have empathy for people whose children might have ADHD. I don't know what that's like.

[00:21:53] I think this is such an interesting conversation too, right? Like I'm, I think about the dogs, like the emotional support animals we see, like in the airports or in the store. I think that people also need to remember that they need to ask the owner before they pet the dog because they, number one, they're very, very protective of their owners and the owners are very protective of their

[00:22:21] dogs. So being mindful and remembering that you need to ask before you do something, just pretend it's like your mom and you need to ask permission before you do it because that can stop a lot of really bad encounters. Yes, you're so right. And a lot of dogs don't like children and working dogs and emotional support dogs. Therapy dogs are different. They're not meant to be pet by someone

[00:22:47] else. I, we were literally just having this conversation when we, the last time we traveled in the airport, we saw a service animal and then the police dogs and my son's, he loves dogs. Like he loves dogs. And he was like, Oh, it's a puppy. And we were having this conversation with him. Those are working dogs. You can't go up and you can't pet them. They're at work right now. You've got to let them, we're trying to explain it to a seven-year-old, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's difficult,

[00:23:14] I think for a kid to understand. And I don't think there's enough information out about the different kinds of service animals, therapy animals. One of the things that I also do is we go to a lot of preschools and kindergartens kind of with humane education and we teach kids how to meet and greet a dog. And the first thing is always ask permission. May I please pet your dog? Yeah.

[00:23:42] But I think there's quite a few adults out there that have not got that message yet. So this is a good PSA for asking permission. And the other thing is, and I'm also like, I'm connected with a lot of like dog trainer type people. And some of the things I've learned about is it's all about consent. And even if the owner says, yes, you may pet my dog, the dog may not really want to be pet. So there's like the three second rule,

[00:24:11] pet the dog for three seconds. And then you take a look at, does it look like the dog wants to be pet again? Or is it okay, thank you. And you move on. It's just fascinating. That's interesting. Well, I love this. I mean, it's definitely giving us something to think about. I think me specifically as a parent, because I know how much he loves animals and trying to make sure we're guiding him properly to have respect. Like, I think that's what, where I go with

[00:24:40] communicating with him is we have to respect the animals. So they're not always going to be cute and cuddly. And we've even expanded that conversation on other creatures of the world, if we want to call it that being in Georgia. We also love snakes. And we're like, every snake is a fun snake. So I mean, it's just like respect that animals are animals first, and then let's figure out which ones are safe

[00:25:04] to interact with and not. So yeah, and you can easily not translate, but easily apply the same principle to people. Yeah. Can I talk to that person? I don't know. Let me like visualize the situation. Do they look okay? Do they look sketchy? Yeah. Yeah. You're like, but it's funny, but not funny. Like animals are a lot easier to read than people. You're so right. You're so right.

[00:25:33] Yeah. But you right away, if a dog or a cat or a bear or a snake is okay to pet because they're usually growling at you, right? But like people internalize that. So you don't really know if it's okay to approach them. But I wish that people were a lot more like animals. In many ways. Yeah. So many. Honestly.

[00:25:58] They're a lot simpler. You're right. And dogs in particular, like they, they're honest. You see what you get or what, whatever that says, you get what. Yeah. Cause they're not lying. They're not hiding emotions. So that's interesting. I never thought about that G-Rex, but yeah, it would be nice to know which humans we can approach and not, and who will bite us and who will not. Have you ever seen a narcissistic dog? No.

[00:26:27] A misogynistic dog? No. No. Never. No. No. Scared? Yes. I mean, I've seen a little bit in cats, but never in a dog. Yeah. Cats is a whole different subject. You've got a lot of them. I feel like cats are like the assholes of the pet world. Yeah. They can be, but they can also be super lovable. But you know, you approach them the same way as you would a dog, right? You just need to learn how to read the animal. Read what's kind of going on

[00:26:54] in them. If it's a cat, if their tail is like going like a rattlesnake, like they don't want to be approached. Okay. Like you've now overstimulated them. Right. But somebody has to teach you that. Yeah. I didn't know that. Me neither. I just learned. Yeah. They must really like me. Maybe have a book in you. Yeah. Yeah. If you, because you know, we talked a lot about dogs, but like cats, you can read

[00:27:20] cats too. Okay. Yes. 99% of the time they can be an asshole. Okay. But they can also be really good like lap animals, but same with dogs. Don't pet them until they get overstimulated because that's when they bite. But if you're ever around a cat and you see their tail swishing really fast, just walk away, move your hands because their reflexes and their teeth are sharp as hell.

[00:27:50] Yeah. Good to know. I had a roommate in upstate New York who had a cat and this cat would terrorize the shit out of me. Like I would sit down and the cat would just have it out for me. He would be staring at me from rooms away, G-Rex and he would come and just dart at me and I'd freak out. And he thought it was funny. I'm convinced he did it just to fuck with me. It's like that fucking cat. Yeah. All right. So I have some random questions for you. Sure.

[00:28:20] These are the questions I've started asking. Maybe I need to switch these up. G-Rex, we'll figure it out maybe next season. But if you can go back in time to a younger version of yourself and give that younger version of yourself a bit of advice, what would you tell yourself and how old are you when you go back in time? Well, and maybe this is for a different session with you guys. My growing up and has had some

[00:28:49] turbulence. But in terms of our conversation today, I think I would maybe 18 or 19 and I would try to give myself some confidence and say, you're going to know this stuff and you need to share it.

[00:29:15] I mean, sometimes I get asked, what was my regret? Although I've now reframed it to what have I learned? And basically, I wish I had done the book and really gotten this part of my life going a lot sooner. So I usually don't want anybody, but just do it.

[00:29:40] I usually follow this up with what has been the hardest lesson you've had to learn in your life. So far? I, if we encompass my whole life, I have learned, had to learn resilience. I hate to say I've gotten pretty good at it because that means I've had to practice it a lot. Yeah. Work out that muscle. Yeah. Gotcha.

[00:30:09] It's a hard muscle to work. It really is. I, so now I have a couple of questions. What is your favorite word? I'm going to say resilient. About that. And what's your least favorite word? Should have given me a cheat sheet. We love to hit everybody with these off. No prep. I know. I don't know. Can I take a pass? No. Yeah, you can take a pass. Part two.

[00:30:45] Maybe never. I don't know. I don't know. I don't like that one. I'll have to think about it. Okay. So what do you do for self-love and self-care these days? I am blessed with a close family now. So I love to spend time with them. And my dog is a big part of self-love, self-care. It opens when you have a dog. It's interesting. It opens up if you walk and things.

[00:31:13] It opens you up to a whole different kind of community. It's almost like jury duty. You meet people that you would never meet anywhere else. But I have to say, every day around 3 o'clock, it's like my energy dips. I really want to eat some chips and sit in front of the TV. And sometimes I do that. But most of the time, I walk the dog. And now that I'm reflecting on it, when I'm done, I feel a lot better. Yeah.

[00:31:43] I love that. Can you like to kind of close this up? What's your dog's name and what kind of dog is it? Yes. My dog is named Winnie. She is my third dog as an adult. She is, it's spelled K-E-E-S-H-O-N-D. But in case there are any dog breeders listening, it's pronounced K-E-S-H-O-N-D. They're Dutch.

[00:32:06] And it's interesting because my first dog, Mugsy, came with a lot of anxiety. We rescued him. He was a wonderful dog. My second dog, Fozzie, all the same breed, came as a puppy, almost had a nervous breakdown. And he was a wonderful therapy dog. And Winnie, we got at 10 months old. And when she was rehomed from the breeder, the first home she went to didn't work out.

[00:32:35] And I know why, because this little angel is hyper and needs a lot of attention and she's wonderful. But she also, she came not trusting because nobody had taken care of her needs when she was a baby. So this is, we're working on it.

[00:32:58] And I'm pleased to say now, like if she steps on something outside, like a burr, instead of trying to run around, she'll lift her paw and let me help her. That's lame. Yeah, I feel really good about that. So, Stephanie, where can our listeners find you? Oh, Instagram, it's Overcome Your Fear of Dogs. It's pretty much the whole thing. OvercomeYourFearOfDogs.com.

[00:33:23] And then I have the two books, which are available online. I love this. Thank you, thank you, thank you for coming. Thank you for having me. Such a great conversation. I mean, the fear of dogs often flies under the radar, but it's real. And there's help. Help is available. I love that. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, y'all. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I'm G-Rex.

[00:33:53] And I'm Dirty Skittles. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. We'd love to listen to your feedback. We can't do this without you guys. It's okay to be not okay. Just make sure you're talking to someone. I'm Dirty Skittles. I'm Mky LX. Bye to the bellở altar. I'll be right back.